The JF-17 unfairly suffer in DCS from not beeing Russian or an US airframe.

[Mav783]

Hi,

I miss seeing this plane online.

The plane itself may does not have some of the F-16 and F-18 qualites. As exemple. It's efficiency is not superb in dogfight. It max load is little low and sacrifice will be needed before to take-off. It does not have the HMD. For a modern plane, we can say that the jamming part (EW) and the datalink are certainly simplified. But the module itself is really great anyway.
Ho yes, i know DCS is not yet designed to introduce us with super-modern aircraft. But...Anway ! It break my heart when, online, i don't find so much JF-17 airborne :s

The F-17 have so much qualites and the module itself is really great.

- First of all, the module is really complete and was almost in release. Even if it is hard to know if the systems are deeply implemented comparativly to the IRL plane, it seem really complex and complete (exept as usual about the datalink and the jaming managment, and others moderns things like this).
- You can not load so much under your plane, yes...But you have a large choice of weapons. And that since the beginin of the OB access. And by large choice, i mean, unique ones !
- Even with such complex capability, it is staying easy to use. The interface look like a computer compared to the F-18 that look like an old calculator (not the same generation, i know).
- Those 3 colored MFD in HD are just incredibly clear and comfortable. It human/machine interface is very solid and make all the datas pages easy to understand, to memorize and to use. Ok, they are not super personalisable as the F-15E. That's less cool. But they are really friendly.
- Some of it modelisated systems are really cool and well designed. As exemple, the IFF, or the TV data-linked command. Where you need to pilot both a plane and a cruiser missile on it final phase is just insane.
- It's easy to fly, but it's not over assisted.
- It's a mix beetwin a glass cockpit 4th++Gen omnirole fighter and a cold war interceptor, with some switch to use. Wich is just a super sexy mix
- It's a good BVR fighter and SA war machine !
- It have verry good and varied attack A/G A/S capabilities.

- The radar capabilities ! XD

I don't know if the plane is "realistic", because this airframe is very modern and not an open book in public data. And also because i d'ont have the skill to judge such things. I like to know, but i don't find so much. At first it was pertubating me, i love to know little in details if a module is close to the real airplane (just to know, i love to know that ! Anyway we keep limited by the sim). But it seem really good, it is coherent, it look coherent, and this is important.

- I can not speak with knowedge about the FM but it is enought to feel the plane and have a coherent feeling about it caracteristics.

- The 3D modelisation is absolutly insane, as the texturing, inside and outside (maybe too clean but it's recent, so).
- The sound design is more than decent. I mean, soundesign is verry important for immersion. And it really do the job.
- This plane is adding so much details and effects that are well made, original, unique, and push the simulator up and give some level of detail to the concurence to follow, so it's better for all DCS. For exemple, the fog effect from inside is brutal and need to be managed ! The same effect from outisde view is oustanding. The effect of lacking oxygen is verry good. The effect of the reactor turning on is perfect, look also at the automatic exhaust valve of the APU outside. The lader and intake protection that are on by default on cold and dark startup. The oxygen managment before to flight and in flight, the "remove before flight pins" XD. Etc... This is details. But it's nice. And some are in fact verry vital and add realism and immersion (espcialy the need to connect the oxygen tube before to run, and the oxygen and airflow managment inflight)

I don't understand why it look underrated like this. Maybe it's not. But i miss seeing it in multiplayer.

This JF deserve more users online Maybe it's not reaching the complexity expected from hardcore studylevel users, who suspect that the module is too friendly ? But i doubt this is the reason why it's not used... Maybe because he can not lock 10 targets in BVR and dogfight half the planet in the same time XD ...I d'ont know...
Or, simply, just maybe because it's not a well know plane, not Russian, and not Occidental. Certainly. But it's not a good reasons.

I'm not here to sell this module, right ! XD  I'm not from Deka Ironwork. I'm just saying what i think about this module. And i feel it deserve to fly more. Especialy in A/G and BVR PvE training server. A real pleasure to use it in those kind of servers.

See u

[coopercobra03]

I always add the JF-17's in all my LIberation campaigns, I think It's a great plane to fly especially for the A/G, SEAD roles... There is nothing like launching LD-10's followed by a pair of GB-6-SFW's from 40 miles away... The 3 large MFD screens are really great also...  I'm guessing because it has short legs nobody really uses it, once you starting adding fuel tanks it's taking up valuble space for bombs and missles... 

[Napillo]

26 minutes ago, coopercobra03 said:

short legs

That depends on how you fly it, I see people all the time carrying tanks and coming home with 3000lbs fuel. I run mine down to the fuel warning and then head back, 4000 lbs fuel is plenty enough, and bags add enough weight and drag I avoid using them except in the most extreme cases, like when I'm flying from Anapa to Sochi. Even then, if I keep my aoa around 3 and just cruise around 90% rpm I'll get there with enough fuel to stay on station for about 10 minutes. 

[Napillo]

2 hours ago, Mav783 said:

It break my heart when, online, i don't find so much JF-17 airborne

It's usually going to be someone's second or third aircraft purchase, if that, unless you grew up in Pakistan, you probably haven't heard of it until it was released in DCS. I fly it around 90% of the time. I've also bought the module several times as gifts. It's a great plane, and if your friends play DCS, gift it to them, and show them how it works. They'll appreciate it. The main complaints I saw was that it's not as fast as the F-16, and it can't carry a lot of missiles. I can't argue with that, they're different aircraft, so use them different and treat them different. The F-16 is great at engaging air targets, not so good at everything else, though it can do kinda everything. The Jeff is excellent at finding air targets, good at engaging them, and not great in a dogfight, but it's great at ground attack, and sead. Those three screens really help, especially since they're so large, you can really use them to your advantage. The MAWS has saved me countless times, and the fact that it's so easy to use, everything is integrated, the human machine interface is excellent. I also like the approach mode, and the DST system. I've had to use TA mode on the radar sometimes when flying in low clouds, something not many aircraft can do. The SPJ how you can pinpoint ground targets is great, and the GMTI is wonderful for finding those pesky tanks on the move. If you have your tpod slaved to the radar, you can even fire laser guided rockets at the GMTI tracked target. Plus, the IFF on the thing even will recognize ground targets if you have it in mode 3. The Betty isn't yelling at you, she's like a friend going 'might want to drop some flares here'. Overall, I'm very pleased with the Jeff.

[Mav783]

2 hours ago, coopercobra03 said:

I always add the JF-17's in all my LIberation campaigns, I think It's a great plane to fly especially for the A/G, SEAD roles... There is nothing like launching LD-10's followed by a pair of GB-6-SFW's from 40 miles away... The 3 large MFD screens are really great also...  I'm guessing because it has short legs nobody really uses it, once you starting adding fuel tanks it's taking up valuble space for bombs and missles... 

Your resume is much better than my novel  I agree.

[Mav783]

1 hour ago, Napillo said:

It's usually going to be someone's second or third aircraft purchase, if that, unless you grew up in Pakistan, you probably haven't heard of it until it was released in DCS. I fly it around 90% of the time. I've also bought the module several times as gifts. It's a great plane, and if your friends play DCS, gift it to them, and show them how it works. They'll appreciate it. The main complaints I saw was that it's not as fast as the F-16, and it can't carry a lot of missiles. I can't argue with that, they're different aircraft, so use them different and treat them different. The F-16 is great at engaging air targets, not so good at everything else, though it can do kinda everything. The Jeff is excellent at finding air targets, good at engaging them, and not great in a dogfight, but it's great at ground attack, and sead. Those three screens really help, especially since they're so large, you can really use them to your advantage. The MAWS has saved me countless times, and the fact that it's so easy to use, everything is integrated, the human machine interface is excellent. I also like the approach mode, and the DST system. I've had to use TA mode on the radar sometimes when flying in low clouds, something not many aircraft can do. The SPJ how you can pinpoint ground targets is great, and the GMTI is wonderful for finding those pesky tanks on the move. If you have your tpod slaved to the radar, you can even fire laser guided rockets at the GMTI tracked target. Plus, the IFF on the thing even will recognize ground targets if you have it in mode 3. The Betty isn't yelling at you, she's like a friend going 'might want to drop some flares here'. Overall, I'm very pleased with the Jeff.

Happy me that so much of my friends also have the JF It's a great plane yes. A good module to learn in team also, since it can be complexe and accessible in the same time. And what you said is really the JF ! The human machine interface yep ! Great. About its way to be so aware, i doubt that the real plane (and any real plane) can be so easly managed like this with it data-link systems and interfaces. I'm really not sure if it work easly like that, and with juste one or 2 data pages (datas managment). But anyway, it's stay verry coherent and solid reguarding DCS core "limitation" and the fact that recent documentation can not be easly finded. 

[FlankerFan35]

JF isn't red or blue so will always have low user numbers.

Only if J-10/MKK comes will you see these aircraft used more widely. That said, its currently my fav module.

Edited July 8, 2023 by FlankerFan35

[Napillo]

3 hours ago, Mav783 said:

i doubt that the real plane (and any real plane) can be so easly managed like this with it data-link systems and interfaces.

 

[Mike_Romeo]

On 7/8/2023 at 5:04 AM, Mav783 said:

i doubt that the real plane (and any real plane) can be so easly managed like this with it data-link systems and interfaces.

 

[Stratos]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:59 AM, Napillo said:

 I've also bought the module several times as gifts. 

Would not mind receiving it as a gift, lol.

Been on the edge several times as I think I will love it, but the discount never reaching 50% puts me back.

[Napillo]

On 7/9/2023 at 6:53 AM, Stratos said:

Been on the edge several times

 

[Pavlin_33]

On 7/9/2023 at 3:53 PM, Stratos said:

Would not mind receiving it as a gift, lol.

Been on the edge several times as I think I will love it, but the discount never reaching 50% puts me back.

Jeff - you love it and you hate it. It's like a screaming toddler that getts puppy eyes at the end of the day.

It has TWS but not helmet mounted sight. It has fox3, but fox2 sucks. It has array of weponry, but short legs. It has missile warning system, but it's slow...

Things I really like about it, is that it seems to be very well modeled and feels like a real aicraft. And oh, yes, it has PROPER IFF modeled! Not this DCS - toy IFF.

[probad]

i think there are more fundamental reasons why people play a game than the game product being technically well executed. there are many products in the world that are finely made, but nobody wants them, because they don't see how the product's value relates to their own condition.

a few people are those who are genuinely interested in the aircraft as an aircraft. but a lot of other sim players are roleplayers, and for them its often about consummating a fantasy. the source of this fantasy is oftentimes a story they grew up on -- a documentary, a movie like top gun, or novel, or a story passed down from a relative. a story can be a specific notable event, like the f-15e that bombed a helicopter, but it can also just be a relationship that is relevant to the audience, like being their national air force's aircraft. stronger stories will tend to have a bigger following.

unfortunately for the jf-17, it doesn't have a story that is meaningful to the american audience. there isn't a story about the jf-17 that reaches a wide audience in the west to fire its imagination. it does hold a lot of meaning to the pakistanis, and perhaps a little less to the chinese. maybe the pakistanis can work harder to promote the jf-17's role in the last border clash. however, the reality may be that since the indo-pakistani conflict has almost no effect on americans it remains unlikely to capture their attention at large.

anyways i think if you want to promote it it definitely helps to give people an appealing story to give them a reason to desire it at all in the first place. yes, it's marketing. it's not unfair that products with stronger marketing are more successful -- the only answer is to come up with marketing of your own.

Edited July 11, 2023 by probad

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

8 hours ago, probad said:

i think there are more fundamental reasons why people play a game than the game product being technically well executed. there are many products in the world that are finely made, but nobody wants them, because they don't see how the product's value relates to their own condition.

a few people are those who are genuinely interested in the aircraft as an aircraft. but a lot of other sim players are roleplayers, and for them its often about consummating a fantasy. the source of this fantasy is oftentimes a story they grew up on -- a documentary, a movie like top gun, or novel, or a story passed down from a relative. a story can be a specific notable event, like the f-15e that bombed a helicopter, but it can also just be a relationship that is relevant to the audience, like being their national air force's aircraft. stronger stories will tend to have a bigger following.

unfortunately for the jf-17, it doesn't have a story that is meaningful to the american audience. there isn't a story about the jf-17 that reaches a wide audience in the west to fire its imagination. it does hold a lot of meaning to the pakistanis, and perhaps a little less to the chinese. maybe the pakistanis can work harder to promote the jf-17's role in the last border clash. however, the reality may be that since the indo-pakistani conflict has almost no effect on americans it remains unlikely to capture their attention at large.

anyways i think if you want to promote it it definitely helps to give people an appealing story to give them a reason to desire it at all in the first place. yes, it's marketing. it's not unfair that products with stronger marketing are more successful -- the only answer is to come up with marketing of your own.

 

Well said!

[Dragon1-1]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:17 PM, probad said:

anyways i think if you want to promote it it definitely helps to give people an appealing story to give them a reason to desire it at all in the first place. yes, it's marketing. it's not unfair that products with stronger marketing are more successful -- the only answer is to come up with marketing of your own.

I noticed it doesn't get showcased a whole lot in ED's own videos, though. While it's understandable that they mostly want to toot their own horn, the Tomcat is a constant fixture, despite not being an ED model, and so is the Mirage, despite not being nearly as legendary. ED could give it more screentime, as what is probably the most advanced fighter currently available for DCS, with some of the best MFDs of the bunch.