investigating S-300PS (SA-10B) and ST-68U Tin Shield

[Whiskey11]

Greetings ED devs, while working on a different project to clone the SA-5 and give it some longer range search radars, another individual and I discovered the Tin Shield search radar does not presently function with the in game SA-10B (S-300PS).  The ST-68U Tin Shield was originally intended as a temporary search radar for the early S-300P systems and as a general Early Warning Radar.

I was able to modify the High Digit SAM Mod S-300PS to utilize the Tin Shield in its coding, and after discovering how easy it is (literally one line gets changed), I was wondering if this change could be pushed to the default DCS S-300PS as an option for countries which didn't receive the Big Bird search radar and as an option for those which did.  

The specific line in High Digit SAMs is:

    GT.WS[ws].LN[1].depends_on_unit = {{{"S-300PS SA-10B 40B6MD MAST sr"}},{{"S-300PS 64H6E TRAILER sr"}},{{"RLS_19J6"}}};

where the RLS_19J6 is the in game ST-68U Tin Shield.

In S-300PS 54K6 cp.lua, would need to have the depends_on_unit line changed to something like:

    GT.WS[ws].LN[1].depends_on_unit = {{{"S-300PS 40B6MD sr"}},{{"S-300PS 64H6E sr"}},{{"RLS_19J6"}}};

A fairly small amount of time would be required to add a whole new level of "realism" to the in game S-300PS for nations which didn't have access to the Big Bird search radar or for "dated" scenarios involving pre-64N6 Big Bird deployment by the Soviet Union.

 

Thanks for your time!

[NineLine]

Thanks, I will flag with the team.

 

[NineLine]

We have this internally right now. Maybe this is similar to what you were asking.

null

[Whiskey11]

On 8/24/2023 at 2:03 PM, NineLine said:

We have this internally right now. Maybe this is similar to what you were asking.

null

Hey there NineLine, thanks for the reply... I'm glad to see the Mast mounted Tin Shield is in game now for the S-300, but the one from the SA-5 still doesn't work with it.  I know it's being pedantic, but both versions should work with the S-300 and the change is most likely the same on the back end for DCS (IE: a relatively straight forward/simple adding of the sensor to the list of acceptable radars per the original post)

Also, while I appreciate the higher fidelity models than what we had, it seems like the mast mounted Tin Shield is significantly lower poly than the SA-5's Tin Shield... specifically, the actual wave receivers are missing from both the IFF antenna and the main antenna bars.  It's almost like a Level of Detail is missing.

Let the team know I highly appreciate the work they've done on the S-300.  I'm definitely one of those SAM nerds, so seeing it get some love is great!

[Pikey]

I asked about this also, just FYI. The "depends on" line in the unit lua states the requirement for a specific search radar unit to be in the group, when in reality a vast number of combinations were possible. I actually wanted to propose removing it entirely and using the entire sides radar view as the search authority to provide az/el for the tracking radar. That would need more behaviour change for tracking radars to adapt to, but it would also mean the birth of IADS.
CUrrent system is like a foolproof way of telling people it has to work in one configuration only. Makes sense from a casual gamer pov, but anyone who knows anything will want the flexibility to have more.
Maybe one day.

[Whiskey11]

23 minutes ago, Pikey said:

I asked about this also, just FYI. The "depends on" line in the unit lua states the requirement for a specific search radar unit to be in the group, when in reality a vast number of combinations were possible. I actually wanted to propose removing it entirely and using the entire sides radar view as the search authority to provide az/el for the tracking radar. That would need more behaviour change for tracking radars to adapt to, but it would also mean the birth of IADS.
CUrrent system is like a foolproof way of telling people it has to work in one configuration only. Makes sense from a casual gamer pov, but anyone who knows anything will want the flexibility to have more.
Maybe one day.

I definitely agree with what you are saying.  When I did the IADS Project GitHub with Recoil (Google Earth KMZ with all the Soviet era SAM sites on it), I can count on two hands how many times we saw a Big Bird at the same site as an S-300.  Very frequently see them at dedicated EWR sites where you'll see a huge number of EW radars of various types.

I will caveat that by saying, at least in Soviet times, it does not appear that Russian Army air defense units had separate radars which could talk to the Air Defense Forces (PVO) air defense radars... so a Dog Ear, for instance, would be used as an EWR for SA-4, SA-6, SA-8, SA-9, SA-11, and SA-13 (although the later two, a lot less frequently due to the Snow Drift taking over for the DE), but those Dog Ear radars couldn't talk to something like the P-19 of an SA-2/SA-3, or the Tall King of an SA-5 and contribute to the overall IADS picture...

So maybe integrating something at the PVO and Army levels where those systems are significantly less restrained, is in order.

In the mean time, though, that line is all it takes to add the trailer mounted Tin Shield to the S-300, and I think it would be a worthwhile change!

Edited October 21, 2023 by Whiskey11