Against fighters

[SUBS17]

A-10 doesn't have a helmet mounted sight?

 

Its possible at some stage they might put JHCMS on the A-10C although I'd expect a next gen A-10 could probably get something similar to the F35s helmet display.

[CE_Mikemonster]

I thought that for low flying/quick targeting without a WSO HMS would be essential? Slaving mavs, setting markers etc

[GGTharos]

If you have the ability to occlude yourself at a steep angle, sure - as long as there aren't other fighters looking at you from different angles - in this case neither TI nor radar will see you, I agree, and this is the way for a heli to function: Evade confrontation.

 

As for getting to the 'spawn point' ... most people might find the task of flying 200km to that A-10C base daunting :D

 

If you're sitting behind a building or hiding in a forest it probably won't pick it up although the pods TI would pick it up in a forest.

[GGTharos]

Lately A-10C's have been operating above 15000'. Something about MANPADS ;)

 

This isn't some sort of gun-slinging competition or arcade ... they can view enemy position through DL and typically will be called in by a FAC, AFAIK. And yeah, you should be able to slave that pod - and thus your weapons - to DL.

 

I thought that for low flying/quick targeting without a WSO HMS would be essential? Slaving mavs, setting markers etc

[CE_Mikemonster]

Lately A-10C's have been operating above 15000'. Something about MANPADS ;)

 

This isn't some sort of gun-slinging competition or arcade ... they can view enemy position through DL and typically will be called in by a FAC, AFAIK. And yeah, you should be able to slave that pod - and thus your weapons - to DL.

 

 

Taken from Air Forces Monthly in 2007:

 

The Jaguar’s combination of a Helmet Mounted Sighting System (HMSS) with the IDM (Improved Data Modem) data-link provided the aircraft’s most useful and unique capability.

 

The helmet was even more useful in the air-ground role than for designating off-boresight targets for AAMs (a capability which saw Flight Lieutenant Jim Luke ‘down’ a Rafale during a recent NATO TLP exercise). Using the helmet made it much quicker to find a target, and to accurately determine its position.

 

With a known target position, the pilot simply plugs the coordinates into the navigation system, and then follows the HMS cueing to get ‘eyes-on’ to a target, confirming with the FAC that he is looking at the right target. Medium-level CAS used to take upwards of 20 minutes trying to get ‘eyes-on’, depending upon the terrain and the FAC’s ability to describe the target. It still does for every other air-to-ground platform. I estimate that we are typically hot on target in under 5 minutes. No one else can do that. During recent exercises in the UAE the Jaguars proved able to find a target and strike it with four aircraft within three minutes – something that might take more than five times as long with a formation of Harriers or Tornados.”

 

Alternatively a Jaguar pilot could search for targets of opportunity, targets of unknown location or Time Sensitive Targets and, once found, instantly generate accurate coordinates using the HMS sightline, loading the co-ordinates into the nav attack system with a single stick-top button press, with no need to overfly the target or to point the aircraft’s nose at the target (‘nose-point’) to position it in the head up display. This meant that the aircraft could remain non-escalatory (not pointing directly at the intended target), avoiding warning the enemy, and avoiding having to dive and risk exposure to enemy MANPADS. The alternative, of using TIALD or Litening to locate and fix a target is much more long-winded, searching for the target via the pod’s much smaller field of view.

 

Target coordinates generated via the HMSS sightline could then be transmitted to the rest of the formation, or to a Forward Air Controller on the ground, via the datalink, allowing much more rapid engagement of time sensitive targets.

 

Receiving aircraft get a HUD message, make 2 stick top selections to view it on the AMLCD and can then, with one single button press, drop the coordinates into the IN and simultaneously send an ‘accept’ message back to the leader. Two further stick-top selections bring up steering to the target and weapon aiming.

 

I would argue that this is gunslinging.

 

I would want my airborne guardians to get the most accurate munitions on target in the least amount of time - whatever the technology.

[GGTharos]

You're arguing the wrong thing.

 

HMS to slave mavs and whatnot is indeed gunslinging, and it is not what you want to do. Note what you quoted - it's all about information.

 

If you just fly around aiming at whatever you like, your chances of getting a blue on blue start rising.

 

HMS is an aid; it help you maintain SA, get positioned for an attack more quickly, etc etc - but it relies on datalinks and other things to help you do so.

 

So no, it isn't gunslinging. It's meant to be used with information superiority and build up your SA.

[CE_Mikemonster]

Well I suppose it depends.

 

I was anticipating DCS: A-10C being conventional warfare, so my mind was set up for the A-10 flying low level (Fulda Gap scenario) stuff.. Whether that reflects modern A-10 tactics is debatable I suppose (with the benefit of hindsight).

 

Ironically though,it seems the HMS would be more relevant in the role I hadn't considered it flying in - the COIN warfare it has presumably been used in since 2001.

 

In this case it seems a shame that it hasn't currently got a HMS - Seeing as the Jaguar [now retired] briefly had one and apparently proved it's worth.

[Feuerfalke]

Well I suppose it depends.

 

I was anticipating DCS: A-10C being conventional warfare, so my mind was set up for the A-10 flying low level (Fulda Gap scenario) stuff.. Whether that reflects modern A-10 tactics is debatable I suppose (with the benefit of hindsight)

 

 

I guess that is rather a question of scenario than of actual combat doctrine. When there is complete air-superiority and WildWeasels cleared the way, there is no reason to put oneself into the range of the remaining threats from AA-guns and MANPADs.

In a Fulda-Gap-Scenario however, I wouldn't count on air-superiority of either side, so I doubt the A-10s would place themselves in the playground of possible Interceptors.

[GGTharos]

I just don't see the need for a JHMCS on an A-10 when you have SADL.

 

Yeah, it IS better, but is it worth the investment?

 

Edit: It has been brought to my attention that certain HMS systems are being considered for the A-10C.

Edited August 20, 2009 by GGTharos

[CE_Mikemonster]

Out of interest what kind of scenario/tactics will we be seeing/using in DCS: A-10?

[GGTharos]

Whatever the mission maker creates for you.

[MBot]

Prepare for Soviet tank divisions :)

[vrv]

Tell them to prepare for cluster bombs, JDAMs and Mavericks :D

[VMFA117_Poko]

...and roar of the Gutling Cannon.

[EtherealN]

And me getting slightly improved odds at downing GG. >.>

 

More seriously, Mikemonster, do you specifically mean in missions that come bundled with the distribution or more generally? In the former case I suspect it's not even close to finalized since it will be under development, in the latter it's like GG says. Hell, I developed a rudimentary framework for doing capture-the-flag in DCS (it's perfectly doable but do to it well requires a reduculous mess of triggers and therefore isn't really worth the effort since... who the hell plays DCS to get some capture-the-flag action? :P ), and if you can do that with DCS:BS then you can expect practically anything from us players.

[Feuerfalke]

And I hope to slightly improved odds of no longer smash my rotors, when flying the A-10C :D

[EtherealN]

Oh yeah, there is that. :P

[CE_Mikemonster]

I meant what campaigns would the game be shipped with? Obviously not specific details but what's the general mood in camp?

 

For instance it could be anything from COIN with datalink (as advertised by GG ;)) or tankbusting.. Just wondered what the 'focus' would be on (I think however I now have a good idea.. ;);))