G2 to Quest Pro (when is better actually better?)

[j9murphy]

I would love to replace my G2, but only under the following circumstances...

- I want a larger FOV, the narrow field of view in the G2 impacts speed perception and means you have to move your head rather than your eyes more.  I think the QPro has a larger FOV, but is it large enough to actually solve the problem I describe?

- I also want a better experience flying at night.  The G2 is bright at night, the blacks aren't, and the instruments glow around the edges. it's fatiguing to the eyes and hard to look at - I avoid flying nighttime missions with it.

- anything that help fps is good, motion reprojection is nice and i tolerate it for smoothness, but running without it is sharper for sure.

Would upgrading to a Quest Pro (or something else) substantially improve the items above, or would it be a minor incremental improvement that doesnt completely solve the problems above.  - I'm actually ok if my clarity or resolution is not any better.  I don't want it to be worse!, but better clarity or resolution is not a primary motivator for me at this time, the above 3 factors are more important to me while maintaining smoothness.

One more thing, was dropping from 90hz to 72hz on the pro noticeable in any way visually to any one?  I've tried 60hz on the G2 and that is a no go for me, like looking at a an old CRT.

[nikoel]

10 hours ago, j9murphy said:

I would love to replace my G2, but only under the following circumstances...

- I want a larger FOV, the narrow field of view in the G2 impacts speed perception and means you have to move your head rather than your eyes more.  I think the QPro has a larger FOV, but is it large enough to actually solve the problem I describe?

- I also want a better experience flying at night.  The G2 is bright at night, the blacks aren't, and the instruments glow around the edges. it's fatiguing to the eyes and hard to look at - I avoid flying nighttime missions with it.

- anything that help fps is good, motion reprojection is nice and i tolerate it for smoothness, but running without it is sharper for sure.

Would upgrading to a Quest Pro (or something else) substantially improve the items above, or would it be a minor incremental improvement that doesnt completely solve the problems above.  - I'm actually ok if my clarity or resolution is not any better.  I don't want it to be worse!, but better clarity or resolution is not a primary motivator for me at this time, the above 3 factors are more important to me while maintaining smoothness.

One more thing, was dropping from 90hz to 72hz on the pro noticeable in any way visually to any one?  I've tried 60hz on the G2 and that is a no go for me, like looking at a an old CRT.

Without your specs you're not going to get meaningful answers as people will be guessing - here are the generalizations

1) The FOV is increased. It's significant but not mind-blowing. The 'usable FOV' is increased by multiple factors. I don't know what the number is, but if it's 500% I wouldn't be surprised. You get to see the pixels you're rendering through the entire screenspace

2) It's difficult to say if you will like it or hate it. The local dimming (which can be turned off with a toggle switch) can give blooming as it tries to light individual stars. I don't mind it, but I know some people who dislike it

3) G2 OpenXR Motion Reprojection is waterboarding for the willing. Quest Repeojection is getting slapped across the face with a frozen fish. It's better. I would definitely prefer the latter if given the choice

4) Clarity is improved dramatically

5) Sharpness is slightly less in the center but it's across the entire view spectrum

6) Yes it's noticeable. 72hz is still the way forward if you are going for smooth. We are trying to beat refreshrate of the headset

7) Meta has a 30 day return policy, I don't think I have read of anyone on the forums has taken them up on it so far...

 

P.S. Old CRT's have actually quite [relative] high refresh-rates with cheaper models running at 75Hz, and many mid range models going for 89HZ all the way to 100's. Due to interlacing they look much smoother at lower frame rates than their new flatscreen counterparts

Edited August 16, 2023 by nikoel

[Digitalvole]

After an unexpected break from DCS, I’m playing again (yay!).

Apologies for hijacking your thread @j9murphy but I’m in the same boat, got a G2 but am mighty tempted by the QP as I reckon it might be the HMD for constant 90fps. It’s a wad of cash though so I too have a couple of questions. Seems daft to start a new thread but I’ll try and keep this short. 

PC: 4090, 5900x, 64gbRAM.

In the Hornet I’m at 90fps most of the time (and as happy as a tinker) but can’t quite get there in the F15E or Viper. 9ms in the Hornet, 10-11ms in the F15E, soo close yet so far! And I can’t stand the motion smoothing of OpenXR so it’s 90 or nothing for me with the G2. (Asw on my rift/riftS was much more tolerable)

So, what’s a ball park gpu frame time increase going from a G2? 

80hz in the Rift S was great, 60hz in the G2 was a very unpleasant experience. Where does 72hz sit in this spectrum?

Is getting it all set up (DFR etc) relatively straight forward? Free time is not something I have a lot of.

Am I right in thinking I need to buy an extra cable? 

Thanks in advance for any info, my finger is hovering above the buy button. :)

(Keeping post short = Fail)

[slughead]

5 hours ago, nikoel said:

6) Yes it's noticeable. 72hz is still the way forward if you are going for smooth. We are trying to beat refreshrate of the headset

Comparing the 60Hz psychedelic hallucinogenic head-pounding mode of the G2 to the 72Hz of the QP is night and day. I do not see any flicker in the QP at 72Hz and use it all the time.

 

15 hours ago, j9murphy said:

I want a larger FOV, the narrow field of view in the G2 impacts speed perception and means you have to move your head rather than your eyes more.  I think the QPro has a larger FOV, but is it large enough to actually solve the problem I describe?

I'd not say that the QP is a significant increase over the G2 for FOV. If you want a larger FOV, you're looking at a pimax I think? The problem is that the wider the displays, the more pixels, the more demanding of your system. Hence with current technology, it is a trade-off and so we have headsets that we can still see the edges of the panels/headset at our extremities of eye movement. I think it will be a very long time before we see headsets that are fully immersive.

 

16 hours ago, j9murphy said:

I also want a better experience flying at night.  The G2 is bright at night, the blacks aren't, and the instruments glow around the edges. it's fatiguing to the eyes and hard to look at - I avoid flying nighttime missions with it.

I don't think the QP is an improvement over the G2 for night flights. If it is, again, it is only marginal. Probably need OLED panels for good night flights.

 

16 hours ago, j9murphy said:

anything that help fps is good, motion reprojection is nice and i tolerate it for smoothness, but running without it is sharper for sure.

This is where the QP excels in my opinion. With clarity on par if not as good as the G2 but across the whole image, 72Hz refresh rate and quad-view foveated eye tracking resulting in 58% fewer pixels for the GPU to push, you will remain out of reprojection/ASW for longer. But, I will caveat that and say a 4090 is a must. The QP, 72Hz, QVFET, 4090 and I am able to push all the settings to the max in DCS although I have turned down shadows slightly to give even more headroom.

[slughead]

49 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Is getting it all set up (DFR etc) relatively straight forward? Free time is not something I have a lot of.

Yes. Follow the instructions provided on the wiki where you get the software.

 

50 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Am I right in thinking I need to buy an extra cable?

You can use the QP over Airlink. Obviously, you're going to lose battery power and I'm not sure it's going to be glitch-free even on wifi6e. Most of us run DCS on a QP with a cable. I use the official cable. The battery still discharges but at a lesser rate. Some have used powered cables, some have had success to keep the battery charged for longer, and others haven't noticed anything different. For now, I am keeping to the official cable as I have seen some horrible melting problems from the tat sold on Amazon and the like. I think it's too easy for untested items from cheap production countries to end up on eBay or Amazon these days without going through regulatory checks.

[Digitalvole]

Thanks @slughead! Sounds like a bloody winner to me. Do you have a link to the cable? No worries if not convenient  I’ve just about scraped the £1k together, am I about to find out I’m gonna have to wait a bit longer? 

Oh, one more thing, what is the battery life with the cable? This is not something I’d even considered. 

[slughead]

9 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Thanks @slughead! Sounds like a bloody winner to me. Do you have a link to the cable? No worries if not convenient  I’ve just about scraped the £1k together, am I about to find out I’m gonna have to wait a bit longer? 

Oh, one more thing, what is the battery life with the cable? This is not something I’d even considered. 

The best thing.... Meta was offering 30 days no-quibble return. So if you don't like it, you can return it. I bought all of my QP gear from Amazon. At the time I also got a 12-month interest-free option from Amazon. So was a win-win for me.

The official cable is called "Meta Quest Fibre Optic Link Cable". I can't find any on Amazon anymore. You should be able to buy from the Meta store. Argos have them. They are not cheap though. They are said to be fibre optic. So USB-C at each end with a built-in fibre converter and then fibre between combined with power conductors. For what they cost I'm not going to cut mine open t check they are actually fibre-optic 

[j9murphy]

 

9 hours ago, nikoel said:

Without your specs you're not going to get meaningful answers as people will be guessing - here are the generalizations

 I have a 4090/13900K/32GB

 

9 hours ago, nikoel said:

6) Yes it's noticeable. 72hz is still the way forward if you are going for smooth. We are trying to beat refreshrate of the headset

 

3 hours ago, slughead said:

Comparing the 60Hz psychedelic hallucinogenic head-pounding mode of the G2 to the 72Hz of the QP is night and day. I do not see any flicker in the QP at 72Hz and use it all the time.

I was hoping the drop from 90hz to 72 wouldn't be that noticeable...sounds like the effect varies by person (like 60 hz does)

 

3 hours ago, slughead said:

I'd not say that the QP is a significant increase over the G2 for FOV. If you want a larger FOV, you're looking at a pimax I think? The problem is that the wider the displays, the more pixels, the more demanding of your system. Hence with current technology, it is a trade-off and so we have headsets that we can still see the edges of the panels/headset at our extremities of eye movement. I think it will be a very long time before we see headsets that are fully immersive.

 

3 hours ago, slughead said:

I don't think the QP is an improvement over the G2 for night flights. If it is, again, it is only marginal. Probably need OLED panels for good night flights.

These are somewhat disappointing, and may be the reason I choose not to upgrade yet.  If the FOV doesnt solve the speed perception problem, and night flying is no better, then I'm getting a little clarity in the trade and maybe some more headroom for smoothness and eye candy (both nice)... but it's not really solving the current fundamental immersion barriers for me (everyone has their own subjective list lol).

Like was pointed out, I can always evaluate and return I guess... the quest (no pun intended!) for the perfect vr headset continues:)

[slughead]

7 minutes ago, j9murphy said:

the quest (no pun intended!) for the perfect vr headset continues:)

I think we are going to have a long wait for the perfect headset. Decades rather than years in my opinion sadly.

[Digitalvole]

3 hours ago, slughead said:

 

The official cable is called "Meta Quest Fibre Optic Link Cable". I can't find any on Amazon anymore. You should be able to buy from the Meta store. Argos have them. They are not cheap though. They are said to be fibre optic. So USB-C at each end with a built-in fibre converter and then fibre between combined with power conductors. For what they cost I'm not going to cut mine open t check they are actually fibre-optic 

Yeah, I’d take there word for it too

Think I’ll be getting the QP from Argos (got some vouchers) so handy they have the cable. Though I may shed a tear when I see the price. Thanks for the help @slughead

[slughead]

I also bought the full face mask and have hardly used it The two detachable side masks I think are probably good enough for the most part. So save yourself some money and just try the side ones for any night flights - nothing worse than being blinded by your monitor as you turn your head during a night flight.

[theperson]

46 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

Yeah, I’d take there word for it too

Think I’ll be getting the QP from Argos (got some vouchers) so handy they have the cable. Though I may shed a tear when I see the price. Thanks for the help @slughead

Don't do it! The fibre optic cable is not needed. I believe the reason for it is to make the cable slightly thinner and more flexible. You can push the same amount of pixels through a $8 regular usb-c cable. 

I recommend the "Kuject Design Fast Charging Link Cable (PD version)" from amazon, when paired with a PD wall plug you get unlimited battery life. The official $80 fibre cable only gave me 3 hour battery life. 

[Digitalvole]

4 minutes ago, theperson said:

Don't do it! The fibre optic cable is not needed. I believe the reason for it is to make the cable slightly thinner and more flexible. You can push the same amount of pixels through a $8 regular usb-c cable. 

I recommend the "Kuject Design Fast Charging Link Cable (PD version)" from amazon, when paired with a PD wall plug you get unlimited battery life. The official $80 fibre cable only gave me 3 hour battery life. 

The plot thickens!

I’ll be sure to do some research, thanks for the heads up.

[j9murphy]

24 minutes ago, theperson said:

Don't do it! The fibre optic cable is not needed. I believe the reason for it is to make the cable slightly thinner and more flexible. You can push the same amount of pixels through a $8 regular usb-c cable. 

I recommend the "Kuject Design Fast Charging Link Cable (PD version)" from amazon, when paired with a PD wall plug you get unlimited battery life. The official $80 fibre cable only gave me 3 hour battery life. 

What's the difference between the PD version and the QC version?

 

figured it out:)

https://www.baseus.com/blogs/content/pd-vs-qc-the-differences-between-fast-charging-technologies

 

[slughead]

4 hours ago, theperson said:

Don't do it! The fibre optic cable is not needed. I believe the reason for it is to make the cable slightly thinner and more flexible. You can push the same amount of pixels through a $8 regular usb-c cable. 

I recommend the "Kuject Design Fast Charging Link Cable (PD version)" from amazon, when paired with a PD wall plug you get unlimited battery life. The official $80 fibre cable only gave me 3 hour battery life. 

This one? I read the reviews... Hence my earlier point about reliability and regulatory checks. I don't want to trust my thousands of pounds PC and near thousand pounds headset to an iffy cable.

 

Kuject Design 16FT Link Cable for Oculus Quest 2, with Separate Charging Port for Ultra-Durable Power, USB 3.0 Type A to C Cable for VR Headset Accessories and Gaming PC : Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games

Edited August 16, 2023 by slughead

[theperson]

4 hours ago, slughead said:

This one? I read the reviews... Hence my earlier point about reliability and regulatory checks. I don't want to trust my thousands of pounds PC and near thousand pounds headset to an iffy cable.

 

Kuject Design 16FT Link Cable for Oculus Quest 2, with Separate Charging Port for Ultra-Durable Power, USB 3.0 Type A to C Cable for VR Headset Accessories and Gaming PC : Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games

 

Kuject Design 18W Fast Charging Link Cable for Quest 2/Pro/Pico 4 16FT, with Separate Charging Port for Unlimited 120HZ PC/Steam VR Playtime, USB 3.0 Type A to C Cable Accessories for VR Headset https://a.co/d/dIIhYTJ

This is the one I have. It has not burned my house down. 

 

For the record I have tried both the official expensive link cable and this other charging cable, and they both performed perfectly as far as visuals/bit rates, but the headset battery discharged in ~3hours. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by theperson

[Dogmanbird]

I get around 3 hours of use via usb cable. 3 hours seems to be the norm when connected to all the different desktops and laptops we have for work, regardless of USB port type.

[Sile]

Official cable here.

My headset slowly discharges to 80% and stays there on proper USB Port. 5 hours is the max time I tested. Didn‘t drop below 79%.

Maybe check your mainboard manuals for port specs (max wattage or current) and connect accordingly.

[Mr_sukebe]

I’m not a fan of connecting power hungry peripherals directly to my PC motherboard.  I’m currently using 3 Anker powered USB hubs.

I also replaced the stock USB cable with a high quality USB 3 unit.

For comfort, I use these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zeltauto-Management-Reusable-Fastening-Organizer/dp/B07K7DGKHN/ref=asc_df_B07K7DGKHN/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309904160813&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3469704349076634024&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007135&hvtargid=pla-663954981355&psc=1

 

I found the QP to be terribly uncomfortable stock.  The above are really cheap and are stretchable bungee straps.  I’ve got 3 on my headset going side to side.  Made a huge difference 

 

[DayGlow]

As a former G2 owner with a QPro now the other thing to consider with FOV is that even though the QPro didn't have a much larger FOV you do get edge to edge clarity with the QPro lenses. 

When I had my G2 with its small sweet-spot I kept my eyes locked in the middle of the lense and moved my head to look at everything. 

The QPro you can move your eyes and scan much more naturally. Looking at the HUD a quick glance down works vs bobbing your head up and down. 

[j9murphy]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:35 PM, DayGlow said:

As a former G2 owner with a QPro now the other thing to consider with FOV is that even though the QPro didn't have a much larger FOV you do get edge to edge clarity with the QPro lenses. 

When I had my G2 with its small sweet-spot I kept my eyes locked in the middle of the lense and moved my head to look at everything. 

The QPro you can move your eyes and scan much more naturally. Looking at the HUD a quick glance down works vs bobbing your head up and down. 

agreed, but the "next level" of immersion for me is not more clarity - it's a wider field of view.  Not that that the G2 is great, its just good enough.  A wider field of view would improve immersion by creating a greater perception of speed and being able to more of the battlefield at once.