Hoggorm Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 Hello, I try to attack a Hawk SAM site in POS EOM mode. I've added the exact coordinates for the Tracking Radar part as a steerpoint and launches when within range. I assume the SAM site turns off its radar from time to time. Anyway, I see that often the missile does not hit anywhere near the steerpoint at all (often it does hit, but then I assume the radar is on?) It can overfly the steerpoint with several thousands of feet. Is this normal? I would expect the missile to hit the radar even if the radar was off if it was located at the steerpoint? Or am I assuming too much?
Hobel Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) vor 15 Minuten schrieb Hoggorm: Hello, I try to attack a Hawk SAM site in POS EOM mode. I've added the exact coordinates for the Tracking Radar part as a steerpoint and launches when within range. I assume the SAM site turns off its radar from time to time. Anyway, I see that often the missile does not hit anywhere near the steerpoint at all (often it does hit, but then I assume the radar is on?) It can overfly the steerpoint with several thousands of feet. Is this normal? I would expect the missile to hit the radar even if the radar was off if it was located at the steerpoint? Or am I assuming too much? Could you add a track? Otherwise, the current behavior of the AGM-88 is such that they become active almost immediately after starting. It doesn't matter which mode you are in, if the radar in the area is off, this can lead to discrepancies. There is already a bug report for this Edited September 14, 2023 by Hobel
Hoggorm Posted September 14, 2023 Author Posted September 14, 2023 Thank you for the reply Hobel, Yes, please find a relevant track file attached. We were two F16 who did two strikes on a SAM site at Fujairah airport. The steerpoint for us both is exactly the same and is set just south of the airport near the SAM site. On the first run the flight lead hit a Roland twice and destroyed it. I hit a Roland once but did not destroy it. Another HARM destroy a Hawk TR. One of my AGM88s really wears off. I've never seen that before though. On the 2nd run (20 minutes later) I assume all radars are off (we did not know that at the time), but you can see that even though, again, we fire at the same steerpoint all HARMS rain down over the airport at random. I would expect them all to hit basically the same spot? There is a Tacview recording of this as well here (My callsign is Hoggorm): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZasUpwRX5Ak399ACjjWV46texEyOkNk4/view?usp=sharing The first run is about to hit Fujairah at 0728. The next run is about 20 minutes later at 0749. HARM strike Fujairah.trk
SickSidewinder9 Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 I didn't watch the track, but if you want the Harm to fly toward a steerpoint, you have to change it to launch in PB mode and have that steerpoint selected as your nav point. If you are just using the HAD, you want to be PGM3 at most for it to home in. The old Harms aren't actually very smart weapons and the sites do not turn their radars off by default. If you do it from the Harm weapon page, I'm not sure it tells you how good the accuracy is gonna be. It's not gonna be as good as with HTS and PGM 3 or less.
Solution Hobel Posted September 14, 2023 Solution Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) vor 5 Stunden schrieb Hoggorm: I would expect them all to hit basically the same spot? Basically no, the AGM-88C has a rough INS which is not enough for pinpoint attacks. Although it flies in the direction of the target point, it can still fly a few hundred meters or even km away from the actual waypoint as long as there is no emitter nearby vor 5 Stunden schrieb Hoggorm: I hit a Roland once but did not destroy it. this is Reported Edited September 14, 2023 by Hobel
Terzi Posted September 14, 2023 Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Do you have the correct emitter code entered? For Hawk it could be 203, 204, 206 for the current default RWR library in DCS. Edited September 14, 2023 by Terzi [CENTER] [/CENTER]
Hoggorm Posted September 14, 2023 Author Posted September 14, 2023 1 hour ago, SickSidewinder9 said: I didn't watch the track, but if you want the Harm to fly toward a steerpoint, you have to change it to launch in PB mode and have that steerpoint selected as your nav point. As far as I understand the POS EOM mode will also do this. This was the mode I was in during this attack. 1 hour ago, Hobel said: Basically no, the AGM-88C has a rough INS which is not enough for pinpoint attacks. Although it flies in the direction of the target point, it can still fly a few hundred meters or even km away from the actual waypoint as long as there is no emitter nearby this is Reported I see. Then my understanding was wrong and I had a little more faith in the weapon than what I should have had. Nice to know and this answers my question Thank you for reporting the Roland needing two HARMs to be destroyd. 54 minutes ago, Terzi said: Do you have the correct emitter code entered? For Hawk it could be 203, 204, 206 for the current default RWR library in DCS. Absolutely. 203 was entered for the Hawk Tracking Radar in this specific mission.
Hobel Posted September 15, 2023 Posted September 15, 2023 vor 11 Stunden schrieb Hoggorm: Thank you for reporting the Roland needing two HARMs to be destroyd. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/283499-harm-agm88-0-damage-direct-hit/?do=findComment&comment=4980893
Hoggorm Posted September 16, 2023 Author Posted September 16, 2023 On 9/15/2023 at 10:30 AM, Hobel said: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/283499-harm-agm88-0-damage-direct-hit/?do=findComment&comment=4980893 Ah, so this has been reported a long time ago. No immediate fix to be expected then I assume...
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