ACM Cover Function

[Naquaii]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:02 PM, bonesvf103 said:

Thanks for summarizing and simplifying things, Naquaii.

If I have the cover down, and I get a PDSTT lock and fire the Phoenix, then the lock is broken, is it that the AIM-54C will then go active and try to find the target on its own, but the AIM-54A will not unless I reacquire the lock?

How about if I have the cover down, have a PSTT lock (like from VSL Hi or LO, PAL , PLM), fire, and then the lock is broken?  Is it the same?  If it's an AIM-54C it will go active and try to find the target but if AIM-54A it is trashed unless I happen to reacquire the lock?

I'm also trying to also determine when the Phoenix basically becomes an expensive Sparrow, ie, when I have a lock and fire, and am required to guide it all the way to the target.  Is that only in the case of an AIM-54A?

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

The AIM-54C will always go active if it hasn't already if you stop guiding it so yes, if you fire it in PD-STT it will go active if you break lock. The AIM-54A will go stupid like you say.

When you fire in P-STT the AIM-54 will always launch active as the AWG-9 can't guide the missile in pulse mode so the two missiles will behave the same.

And yes, the only missile you technically have to guide all the way to the target is the AIM-54A in PD-STT. It is however still recommended to always guide them to target regardless if you can.

15 hours ago, WarthogOsl said:

With the A fired in PD-STT mode, yes, it's a big Sparrow.  The C can go active automatically if the F-14 loses the PD-STT lock (though I've heard this is not accurate to real life).

No, afaik the AIM-54C going active with lost PD-STT guidance is accurate. What isn't is that the AIM-54C in DCS will go active in PD-STT even if you keep the lock. IRL it wouldn't unless you break lock, but that is a DCS-ism as it is.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Naquaii

[draconus]

26 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

And yes, the only missile you technically have to guide all the way to the target is the AIM-54A in P-STT

You meant PD-STT.

[Naquaii]

5 minutes ago, draconus said:

You meant PD-STT.

Correct, the D disappeared somehow. Edited

[WarthogOsl]

6 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

Can it be fired in P-STT?  Do the same rules apply (break lock= "A" is trashed and "C" goes active)?

v6,

boNes

Neither A nor C Phoenix can guide on a P-STT lock, only PD-STT.  In P-STT they will point their radars in the direction of the lock before launch, but on launch, will be immediately active the whole flight.  It should really only be used as a WVR mode, because the missile is going to have to find and lock the target with its own radar as soon as its launched.  Treat it like a giant Fox 2 (with all the danger that implies to nearby friendlies as well).

[draconus]

6 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

Thanks for the info, but what is "English bias?"

It's the command given to the missile to turn onto the course and elevation after launch.

[Kageseigi]

8 hours ago, Naquaii said:

No, afaik the AIM-54C going active with lost PD-STT guidance is accurate. What isn't is that the AIM-54C in DCS will go active in PD-STT even if you keep the lock. IRL it wouldn't unless you break lock, but that is a DCS-ism as it is.

This makes me curious. Which radar is better at tracking for a missile's terminal phase? The F-14's AWG-9 or the AIM-54C radar?

8 hours ago, Naquaii said:

It is however still recommended to always guide them to target regardless if you can.

This makes me suspect the AWG-9 is superior.

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Kageseigi said:

This makes me curious. Which radar is better at tracking for a missile's terminal phase? The F-14's AWG-9 or the AIM-54C radar?

According to radar equation there always will be some range where the power of the missile radar will achieve better signal return and the missile will always get to that range if properly guided and fired within parameters. There are other factors here like target aspect vs the missile and the aircraft and there's no competent RIO in the missile

We can guess the engineers concluded around 10nm as optimal range for a Phoenix to start actively search for and lock on a fighter sized target.

[Schmidtfire]

9 hours ago, draconus said:

We can guess the engineers concluded around 10nm as optimal range for a Phoenix to start actively search for and lock on a fighter sized target.

I disagree (from a DCS standpoint). I often fly multiplayer PvP and 10nm is anything but optimal given how good the RWR gear is in the sim and how easy it is to trash missiles.  
You want to hit something BVR, AIM-54A with TGT size set to small (6nm) is the way to go.  A late warning totally offsets the weaker A seeker performance.
I was a big believer in the 54C, but it's like a night and day difference in pk as far as BVR is concerned. Medium to short range the 54C has the upper hand, but not BVR.

But back to main subject. I think people make it more difficult than it has to be. The ACM cover is there for a reason, it's meant to be used for ACM.
To quickly assist the pilot and make sure nothing is forgotten when the pucker factor is over 9000. Also the LTE advantage it provides is quite handy.

 

[Naquaii]

19 hours ago, Kageseigi said:

This makes me curious. Which radar is better at tracking for a missile's terminal phase? The F-14's AWG-9 or the AIM-54C radar?

This makes me suspect the AWG-9 is superior.

The whole reason for the AIM-54A being one of the first missiles to have an active radar guidance is to allow for TWS. There's simply not enough time for the AWG-9 to illuminate multiple targets with enough of an update rate to allow for robust guidance, they had to make the missiles themselves take over. In PD-STT this is not an issue as there's just a single target to illuminate.

The onboard radar is ofc gonna hit a point where it will have an advantage in power and signal strength due to being closer to the target but at the same time it kinda needs its "hand held" by the AWG-9 to get to that point. PD-STT with SARH is likely preferred because of the better tracking logic of the AWG-9 compared to the onboard radar. It's harder to throw off or fool the AWG-9 than a simpler radar in the missile.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Naquaii

[Nascar]

Are there drawbacks to launching the AIM-54 with the ACM cover up in BVR TWS?

[Naquaii]

21 minutes ago, Nascar said:

Are there drawbacks to launching the AIM-54 with the ACM cover up in BVR TWS?

Yes, you can't launch at TWS tracks in ACM as the missile will be active launch in boresight if you don't have an STT with ACM cover up.