need track replay Issue with ground handling

[markturner1960]

I am an experienced DCS pilot and so are all the people I fly with. To a man, we all have issues with being able to control the jets with any kind of crosswinds when taking off and landing.

Its like trying to control a shopping trolley with a broken wheel, I also fly with several RL pilots who ALL say that its completely unrealistic....

What prompted my post was a mission we flew this morning with a fairly hefty crosswind at the base. One of our formation of 3 crashed on take off after getting into an uncontrollable oscillation, the other 2 were very lucky to get airborne without making contact and two of us crashed on the runway after landing at the end. Its crazy.....

Tried various things, such as rudder curves etc, but the issue persists.....

Can anything be improved with this? 

[razo+r]

Okay so, what aircraft is that with? And to what aircraft did those real pilots compare it with?

What's the cause of the uncontrollable oscillation? PIO? Wake Turbulence? Do you have a track or video?

What's fairly hefty crosswind? 20 Kts? 30? 50?

[BIGNEWY]

I am not sure if this is a bug report but will move there. 

It is best if you are having issues to provide specifics, and a short as possible track replay example. 

We also work with real pilots and you have to try to appreciate that real pilots have the real feeling of the aircraft, the forces bumps and lumps of the tarmac. Simulations will feel different and some can not adjust to it after doing it for real. 

thanks

[MAXsenna]

I believe what's missing is the feel of the inertia. Drive a car kinda fast over a tall bridge in a heavy crosswind. You will definitely feel it the car sway and caught in the wind. But if you're an experienced driver you'll just react instinctively and keep the car straight with no big issue.

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[markturner1960]

F16's in the morning sortie, with about 14 knot crosswind......I would say the main cause is the PIO, which is caused by the way the jet responds to control input. The response is often counterintuitive, or the effects slow behind the input and then you over input. For example, on my landing, when I crashed, the jet was veering left, so I braked right pedal only, the jet veered violently left and flipped.......

We have several commercial pilots, 2 ex military pilots (F5, Tornado & Hawk) and several GA pilots in our school ( Shadowlands) 

Now I accept that there is a point that you need develop the skill to respond to how the sim behaves. We are all several hundred hour DCS pilots with hundreds and hundreds of landings.....and its no easier now than at the beginning. The guy who runs our school ( Shadowlands) likes challenging conditions to hone our skill.  If there is no crosswinds, its not generally a problem. 

I would say that if that range of experience is having issues, then its a problem. Its just a real pisser when you go through the whole start up , checks etc only to crash on the runway on takeoff.....I remember one mission in the Mirage F1 ( which IS pretty unstable) when one guy crashed 3 Times trying to takeoff with a 15 knot crosswind.... it just spoils things. 

I just wondered what governs teh ground handling and if was even possible to adjust? 

[BIGNEWY]

I would suggest if you are having issues you attach a short track replay example and we can take a look, but at this stage we are not seeing any obvious issues. 

thank you 

[markturner1960]

So you think there is no issue then? OK...if its a controls set up problem I would love some suggestions on how to get around it it. Will try and capture a track for next time it happens, but to be honest I am surprised you have never noticed the issue.......