no bug Ground stabilised slew is broken on the su-25 and the su-25T depending on what kind of input you use

[20k]

I've been tracking this one down for a while, because its pretty annoying!

On the su-25, if you are using a joystick input for TDC slew, when the laser designator is ground stabilised it adds your planes motion the cursor when you attempt to move it. This does not happen when using mouse input, and it correctly translates without adding plane motion to the cursor

On the su-25T, the exact opposite is true - when using joystick input for TDC slew it works great, but when using mouse input for TDC slew it inherits your planes velocity and adds it to the motion of the camera

Both of these things occur when in ground stabilised mode only when input is entered, and aren't related to any features of the aircraft in any way, its a simple bug depending on what kind of input system you use, mouse vs joystick, and its the exact opposite between the two aircraft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyjiGAifo7I is a video of the repro

[MAXsenna]

Add a couple of short tracks and the devs will be able to see exactly what you mean.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Flappie]

@20k Same issue, right?

I'll give it a go.

12 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Add a couple of short tracks and the devs will be able to see exactly what you mean.

This. A track is always welcome.

But your video is great! I will make a track showing the same thing.

[Flappie]

Issue reported.

[Flappie]

Devs answered swiftly:

• The Su-25 has not ground lock, only a stabilized line of sight. The TDC movements are relative to the line of sight, not to the ground. This is a very simple sighting system: it cannot lock a ground point.
• A mouse has relative axes, which explains what we see in the video, which is not true-to-life.
• A joystick has absolute axes.

A fix would be to remove the possibility to use the mouse as TDC slew. I'm against it. I feel like it should stay as it is.

What do you think?

 

[Skuva]

12 hours ago, Flappie said:

Devs answered swiftly:

• The Su-25 has not ground lock, only a stabilized line of sight. The TDC movements are relative to the line of sight, not to the ground. This is a very simple sighting system: it cannot lock a ground point.
• A mouse has relative axes, which explains what we see in the video, which is not true-to-life.
• A joystick has absolute axes.

A fix would be to remove the possibility to use the mouse as TDC slew. I'm against it. I feel like it should stay as it is.

What do you think?

 

I find it weird how the system manages to keep a perfect stabilization while "locked" (saying lock because that's how its called in control settings), but when you slew it loses any stabilization and goes back into "relative to LoS" as before lock, like if all the gyros and laser ranging gets turned off. I imagine the system would keep the same stabilization and just add the pilot input to it (like we see in the Mi-24), but it could be like this IRL for some reason I have no way to understand.

Another question would be:  if the system really goes back into relative to LoS temporarily for corrections, why is the sensitivity so low? Its to the point the general concensus is to try to steer the aircraft way more than try to slew the designator, because it's way too hard to maintain such a perfect stable flight so the slew can go the direction you want.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Skuva

[Volator]

If the joystick/mouse thing really is the problem, I'd like to have working joystick axis please. 

[20k]

On 10/17/2023 at 11:28 PM, Flappie said:

Devs answered swiftly:

• The Su-25 has not ground lock, only a stabilized line of sight. The TDC movements are relative to the line of sight, not to the ground. This is a very simple sighting system: it cannot lock a ground point.
• A mouse has relative axes, which explains what we see in the video, which is not true-to-life.
• A joystick has absolute axes.

A fix would be to remove the possibility to use the mouse as TDC slew. I'm against it. I feel like it should stay as it is.

What do you think?

The main issue is that the SU-25 and the SU-25T have the same bug in reverse for their respective controls, which makes them difficult to use consistently as you have to very heavily special case your controller bindings currently. Its common to bind the right stick on a gamepad joystick to the mouse, so it'd be unfortunate if it were removed because it means creating more special casing for the controls

Ideally they'd work the same whichever direction that the devs take with respect to realism, but simply removing either joystick or mouse controls for TDC slew on these aircraft would leave the two aircraft's ground stabilised slewing in inconsistent states with each other and further complicate control setups, so it might be worth double checking the intent with whether the SU-25T should work the same as the SU-25 or not in this area

[Bernardi]

i have been looking all over this forum for a solution.. this problem still persists since 2014 is anything being done about it?

 

su25a bugged sight.trki have attached a track file were i fly a whole mission, for the most part im trying to use the hat switches and it is just horrible after that i just give up and start using my mouse which is not ideal because i have to get my hand off the joystick

Edited February 24 by Bernardi

[Flappie]

Please read what devs answered:

 

[Bernardi]

ive red it, is it being fixed tho? sounds like it is a known issue and it is not being fixed. It is almost like you can cheat the sight by using the mouse? if that is the case why not remove it so it doesnt look like a bug?

[Flappie]

15 hours ago, Bernardi said:

It is almost like you can cheat the sight by using the mouse?

This, precisely. The mouse control acts as an unintented cheat in this case. I think removing mouse control for this would be unfair to users without joystick.