can not reproduce Autopage not syncronized in multicrew

[FalcoGer]

I believe I finally figured out why there are certain desyncs happening.

I was flying with someone, as CPG, and was on the A/C -> UTIL page when a new emitter popped up and set the right MFD to TSD via autopaging. I then went into UTIL (on the TSD page) and hit L1 for an INU1 Reset. At the same time my copilot complained about an "FMC disengaged" message and sure enough on his end the Pitch FMC channel was disengaged (L1 on the A/C -> UTIL page), but it was not on my end. Whenever he switched it on henceforth would turn it off for me and vice versa. I believe the bug results from the back seat client not knowing that autopaging has occurred in the front seat.

Will provide a track as soon as I reproduced this.

Edited October 20, 2023 by FalcoGer

[Lord Vader]

Hello @FalcoGer

We are aware of some issues with multi-crew synchronization and appreciate all reports regarding this. Looking forward to that track. 

[Floyd1212]

This makes total sense, and would probably explain a similar bug that was reported a while back where sometimes the CPG would power on the laser [WPN > UTIL > L6] and for the PLT it would enable NOE/A mode [A/C > UTIL > L6].  Maybe after autopaging to the A/C page after a low RPM warning.

[FalcoGer]

@Lord Vader

Just confirmed it with the engine page. But it also happens with the TSD/ASE autopaging.

To reproduce:

1. PLT joins hot AH64
2. CPG joins same aircraft
3. CPG brings up A/C -> Utility on the left MFD
4. PLT causes engine autopage by pulling collective too fast or other faults
5. CPG presses buttons where FMC toggles used to be
6. PLT gets FMC disengaged, CPG does not

Sever track is me, CPG, self hosted.

server-20231021-053740.trk

Client track is my buddy causing the engine autopage.

Ah64Issues-20231020-214022.trk

Edited October 21, 2023 by FalcoGer
wrong track

[FalcoGer]

Also curiously for the PLT track, no rotor RPM audio warning.

Edited October 21, 2023 by FalcoGer

[FalcoGer]

@Lord Vader were you able to reproduce the problem?

[Lord Vader]

Hi @FalcoGer

I think you were describing an issue with commands on buttons not being refreshed when autopages kicked in, retaining previous commands. That would be an issue, for sure.

However, we did try to replicate the issue you describe in multiplayer, but didn't find any issue. We followed your instructions of the ASE autopage from ground threats being detected and the ENG autopage from a rotor RPM warning. In both cases, the CPG had no buttons to press, nor did we see any desync pressing the FMC options on either cockpit.

All I can suggest right now is to perform a repair, check you bindings. 

We are always compiling sync issues to address them properly. So we appreciate your help gathering these findings. 

[FalcoGer]

What about the tracks? I pressed the empty buttons on the left on the autopaged engine page that would've been the FMC channels.

[Lord Vader]

The tracks will show what you see but we need to replicate on our side to guarantee this is a software issue and not a local problem.

We used the same setup as you did, both instances, and could not reproduce. 

[Floyd1212]

It has happened to me many times, so it is not an issue with just FalcoGer's install, or control bindings.

I will try to reproduce the issue again, as well.

[FalcoGer]

38 minutes ago, Floyd1212 said:

It has happened to me many times, so it is not an issue with just FalcoGer's install, or control bindings.

I will try to reproduce the issue again, as well.

Thanks. I'm done with this. I did what I can. I don't know what to do if I put in effort in something reproducible and then ED just goes: "CNR, tough luck, won't fix."
 

On 10/20/2023 at 11:50 AM, Lord Vader said:

Looking forward to that track. 

4 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

The tracks will show what you see but

Also this upsets me. Every time I don't post a track they say: "We need a track, otherwise we won't bother looking at this and we can't see your setup or what you did." And every time I DO post a track nobody seems to download it and check it. So what is it? Do you need a track or not? And if not, then why do you ask for one?

You know this is really rude. You ask for a track, I give a track and then you say you don't need it or it wouldn't help anyway. I feel like you're wasting my time after I put in effort to report an obscure but reoccurring and annoying bug for you.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by FalcoGer

[BIGNEWY]

FalcoGer

Appreciate you are upset, please note you were asked for a track as we did not see one in the initial post, you then supplied tracks, but then removed them and added new ones which were not looked at. 

We tried to reproduce the issue in a session, that was Vader and me. We followed your instructions and could not reproduce. That does not mean we wont continue, we have already said we are aware of sync issues, and we have alerted the QA team to watch out for the problem. 

If you want to discuss this more use a PM so you dont derail the bug thread. 

Thank you

 

 

[Floyd1212]

Had this happen again tonight. I got the aircraft all started up solo, and as I throttled up the engines I got a low RPM warning which switched my left MPD to the A/C page.

After that, my human CPG joined and started doing some setup of the front seat. He was on TSD page and pressed T3 for SHOW, then T6 for COORD SHOW, then L4 for ENEMY UNITS. This then disabled the Collective channel of the FMC.

Something was out of sync when he got in the aircraft, and from the back seat it appears he was on the A/C page, and pressed UTIL at T6, then COLL at L4, disabling the collective channel.

I got the warning on the EUFD that FMC was disabled, but he did not. When I re-enabled the coll channel from the back, the warning went away for me and it showed up on his EUFD as being disabled. At that point, we were out of sync for the remainder of the flight. 

[Floyd1212]

I was flying with some buddies last night, and they caught this bug as they were getting started up, so they hopped out and saved the tracks.

The desync occurs at 09:17:06 Z mission time (as indicated on the EUFD) when the PLT gets an FMC Disengaged warning out of nowhere.

This is while the CPG is setting up his TSD on the right MPD, and presses T3 for SHOW, then T6 for COORD SHOW, and then L4 for ENEMY UNITS.  The PLT sees this as pressing T6 for UTIL on the A/C Page, followed by L4 which turns off the COLL channel of the FMC.

Here is the PLT track

MPD Desync - PLT.trk

Here is the CPG track

MPD Desync - CPG.trk

One other thing to note is that the CPG slots into the aircraft after the startup process has started, and he gets a Rotor Brake warning as soon as he spawns in, which is a desync issue that the PLT corrects by quickly toggling the Rotor Brake on and off again.  This causes an auto-page to the A/C page on the left MPD in the back seat, but you do not see either MPD changing to A/C in the front seat at this time.  I'm guessing that this is where the auto-paging desync occurs between the two seats, and then pushing buttons eventually leads to the FMC Disengaged message.

[FalcoGer]

14 hours ago, Floyd1212 said:

and he gets a Rotor Brake warning as soon as he spawns in

That bug's been around pretty much from day 1. Good job catching that. I think the issue is more fundamental in that sometimes autopage happens for one crewmember but not the other, not necessarily related to the rotor brakes. It could be engine parameters being calculated independently (instead of being sent by the pilot's client to the cpg for him to display the exact values the pilot also sees), and them being different due to lag or frame timings being different or whatever, triggering an engine page autopage on the back seat but not the front. I've had engine failure in the front seat due to maneuvering while for the pilot everything was just fine.

[FalcoGer]

Had it happen again. This time I was in the front seat and got engine autopage because "rotor rpm low". back seat did not get rotor rpm warning. Then I got FMC Disengaged in the front, presumably because the CPG client thought the back seat was on the engine page while the back seat was not and their client just send button presses instead of aircraft states.

[Lord Vader]

We are still conducting tests for multicrew syncing issues, including the autopage items reported above. 

We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to mitigate the issues very soon.