sepruda Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Probably opening a can of worms I'm sure, but I feel the FLM of the DCS Viper is lacking. It's unresponsive and sluggish, probably because the side stick is simulated? But even realsimulator users report the same. I know other games have simulated the FLM from Nasa and wind tunnel tests with further refinements. There's a lot of articles and forum posts about this. I really wanted to play the new Viper campaign in 2.9, but I cannot tolerate the FLM, so I'll patiently wait and hope it gets improved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_fruitbat Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 No one cares about your feelings without data...... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistking Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sepruda said: Probably opening a can of worms I'm sure, but I feel the FLM of the DCS Viper is lacking. It's unresponsive and sluggish, probably because the side stick is simulated? But even realsimulator users report the same. I know other games have simulated the FLM from Nasa and wind tunnel tests with further refinements. There's a lot of articles and forum posts about this. I really wanted to play the new Viper campaign in 2.9, but I cannot tolerate the FLM, so I'll patiently wait and hope it gets improved. If you suspect that your issues with the FM might be related to the side stick, isn't it just a sensitivity issue then? Have you tried adjusting axis curvature to make controls more snappy? Edited October 27, 2023 by twistking My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepruda Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said: No one cares about your feelings without data...... cold 7 minutes ago, twistking said: If you suspect that your issues with the FM might be related to the side stick, isn't it just a sensitivity issue then? Have you tried adjusting axis curvature to make controls more snappy? No I haven't. I've read a lot of posts about players adjusting the curves, but it makes the jet hard to handle in other situations like AAR and landings. There was also a long post here about the FLM. If you play other games simulating the Viper (wink wink), you'll notice a very different FLM. Being one of the most agile fighters in DCS, the Viper shouldn't feel sluggish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_fruitbat Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, sepruda said: cold With data to back it up, you have something to say, but feelings based on what??? Maybe you're a real life Viper pilot with 2000 hours, but maybe not. So what are your feelings based upon that warrant your opinion, what backs them up, that is all. Without data and evidence, feelings are irrelevant. Edited October 27, 2023 by DD_fruitbat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepruda Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, DD_fruitbat said: With data to back it up, you have something to say, but feelings based on what??? Maybe you're a real life Viper pilot with 2000 hours, but maybe not. If so what are your feelings based upon that warrant your opinion, that is all. I'm not allowed an opinion without data? Must have missed that rule. How do you propose I collect data on the flight model? There's plenty of articles and comparisons out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD_fruitbat Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Just now, sepruda said: I'm not allowed an opinion without data? Must have missed that rule. How do you propose I collect data on the flight model? There's plenty of articles and comparisons out there. You can have any opinion you want, but expecting people to believe it without evidence of some sort is unlikely..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Solution BIGNEWY Posted October 27, 2023 ED Team Solution Share Posted October 27, 2023 Hi Sepruda, thank you for your feedback, we do use data and SME's to refine our flight models. If you think there is an issue its best to post a short track replay example of what you think is wrong and we can take a look. For any change we would require evidence that something is wrong, feelings just wont cut it, we often have people making claims and if we adjusted the flight model each time we would be in a never ending development cycle, so we have to look at the data and evidence. best regards bignewy 3 Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistking Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, sepruda said: No I haven't. I've read a lot of posts about players adjusting the curves, but it makes the jet hard to handle in other situations like AAR and landings. There was also a long post here about the FLM. If you play other games simulating the Viper (wink wink), you'll notice a very different FLM. Being one of the most agile fighters in DCS, the Viper shouldn't feel sluggish... You should give it a try nevertheless. If you have a good flightstick (precise, no deadzone, good centering ability), you can make the aircraft response sharper without loosing the ability for fine adjustments, but it's a compromise of course... My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/184968-my-personal-wishlist-after-half-a-decade-with-dcs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sepruda Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 49 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said: Hi Sepruda, thank you for your feedback, we do use data and SME's to refine our flight models. If you think there is an issue its best to post a short track replay example of what you think is wrong and we can take a look. For any change we would require evidence that something is wrong, feelings just wont cut it, we often have people making claims and if we adjusted the flight model each time we would be in a never ending development cycle, so we have to look at the data and evidence. best regards bignewy Sure I get that. But from what I read, this a widespread opinion on the F16 FLM. There's a 9 page post on this forum that's been closed, and plenty of posts around with that topic. But it's fine, I'll go play the other game that has less eye-candy and better fligtmodel, though I do wish I could have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted October 27, 2023 ED Team Share Posted October 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, sepruda said: Sure I get that. But from what I read, this a widespread opinion on the F16 FLM. There's a 9 page post on this forum that's been closed, and plenty of posts around with that topic. But it's fine, I'll go play the other game that has less eye-candy and better fligtmodel, though I do wish I could have both. No problem, and we will take a look as we refine the flight model. All the best Bignewy Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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