Feedback Thread F-14 Tomcat Patch November 2023

[IronMike]

5 hours ago, draconus said:

They did fix them in recent years because they were crazy fast afair.

Roger, but seeing how hard it was to acquire the necessary info for the aim54, I doubt it was easier for the r33. In other words, I would have no idea how accurate or inaccurate they are, ofc leaning towards being accurate to give ED the benefit of doubt, naturally. But at the same time, they cannot be compared really, except "similar size, purpose and distance."

[SparrowLT]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:01 PM, IronMike said:

Those missiles cannot be compared, for one, for the other R-33 is an older missile from times before in DCS, (unless I missed ED updating it). 

 

Of course im not expecting an AIM54 to be as good and reliable as an AMRAAM or a R-77 ... but we are talking about it has a lot of nonsense behaviour like lofting into the infinite and goes over the target when you still have the target in TWS.... and that didnt happent just a few months ago..

 

Usually the phoenix worked as expected.. of course it has its issues.. can be defeteaded with correct maneovers.. quite sensitive to notching.. long range requieres high alt and high speed lofting or wont be effective... all that is consistent with what the real missile did... but in the last months it began doing stupid stuff .. i have done the same attack profile in a mission several times and some of them the missile moonshoted..others worked perfectly down to the kill .. others tracked correctly and dived on tatgets but was defeated. the last 2 are to be expected.. the target changing direction mid flight and the phoenix runing out of energy and unable to intercept makes sense too.. going straight to the moon half the times with same parameters does not

Edited December 20, 2023 by SparrowLT

[draconus]

2 hours ago, SparrowLT said:

going straight to the moon half the times

Obviously it needs checking, so pile up the tracks, tacviews, videos...

[IronMike]

Well, actually... One of our SMEs shared this story with us:

Now, of course I must add that this particular behavior in DCS is a bug, and not modelled on purpose, but funnily enough still is realistic. That said, having it as a bug vs having it as a particulary modelled behavior is not acceptable ofc, and we will continue to hunt the bug.

But the point remains: the phoenix is an older missile that even when given all the love and care in the world and being handheld as much as you can, will still display quirks one has to simply content with. This will remain even when all the bugs have been squished.

[draconus]

Can you clarify one thing, @IronMike? TWS shot, Phoenix still in its lofting climb, then the track is lost. What should missile do? Going straight, ballistic or continue the loft trajectory to the last known track extrapolation? For sure C will go active, A is lost anyway but still interesting what is the correct missile behavior.

[IronMike]

6 hours ago, draconus said:

Can you clarify one thing, @IronMike? TWS shot, Phoenix still in its lofting climb, then the track is lost. What should missile do? Going straight, ballistic or continue the loft trajectory to the last known track extrapolation? For sure C will go active, A is lost anyway but still interesting what is the correct missile behavior.

Even if the track is lost, it still gets commands from the launching platform as long as the track is still extrapolated. It likely should stop lofting - though I am not sure on this one - but barring malfunctions it should not just head out into space.

[Sindar]

В 21.12.2023 в 17:02, IronMike сказал:

Even if the track is lost, it still gets commands from the launching platform as long as the track is still extrapolated. It likely should stop lofting - though I am not sure on this one - but barring malfunctions it should not just head out into space.

Thank you for your responses. I too was pretty sure it was a random error of one missile in particular. It cannot endlessly gain altitude and disappear 40nm from the carrier. Let's hope there are fewer such accidents in the new year. Merry Christmas to you and everyone in the community!

[IronMike]

On 12/25/2023 at 7:28 AM, Sindar said:

Thank you for your responses. I too was pretty sure it was a random error of one missile in particular. It cannot endlessly gain altitude and disappear 40nm from the carrier. Let's hope there are fewer such accidents in the new year. Merry Christmas to you and everyone in the community!

Thank you, Sindar, the same to you! We wish you all the best in the New Year!

[SparrowLT]

Missiles keep going after the moon for no reason with a proper TWS auto tracking ... they just climb into 150000 and do absolutelly NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to intercept while the Tomcat keeps a good track on TWS

 

this is a disaster

 

missile 1:

 

launch:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/0SV6Avi.png[/img]

 

not long after with TWS still having a track and mild gimballing ..missile is at over 60K climbing still ad mid point

 

and still with TWS track .. when it gets where the target is (wich didnt did much evasive)

 

 

and same with next missiles:

 

missiles 2 and 3 were fired together in a TWS AUTO sequence at 2 targets in similar position closing fast

 

 

 

 

 

Missile 4 did hit but it was fired on a STT locked target and as espected behaved mostly as a fox 1 until going pitbull

Edited April 20 by SparrowLT

[captain_dalan]

Is this a universal thing or just PVP? I don't fly anymore (not enough free time unfortunately), but i had a bit of spare time to run some AI VS AI test missions last night. There doesn't seem to be anything different then the last time i ran them. 

Tacviews attached bellow. 

Tacview-20240423-004331-DCS-AI BVR F-14A duels VS MiG CMk60-31.zip.acmi Tacview-20240423-002708-DCS-AI BVR F-14A duels VS MiG-31.zip.acmi Tacview-20240423-003839-DCS-AI BVR F-14A duels VS MiG CMk47-31.zip.acmi

[Rhrich]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:17 PM, IronMike said:

Well, actually... One of our SMEs shared this story with us:

Now, of course I must add that this particular behavior in DCS is a bug, and not modelled on purpose, but funnily enough still is realistic. That said, having it as a bug vs having it as a particulary modelled behavior is not acceptable ofc, and we will continue to hunt the bug.

But the point remains: the phoenix is an older missile that even when given all the love and care in the world and being handheld as much as you can, will still display quirks one has to simply content with. This will remain even when all the bugs have been squished.

We won't know the capacities of the F-14 weapons system until it's made public, and that will take many decades. In contrast to the amraam the upgraded 54 was only used by the US, and the only other potential user is Iran - who had success with 54 As.

Some capabilites, not modelled in DCS, has been eluded to publicly, but I won't mention them here. 

Suffice to say, both the makers of the Phoenix and Tomcat seem to think that they should model the worst version they can find. In this way they are quite off the mark in many aspects, but they're still quite good in others. Anyone over 40 will have retired before we get the correct picture, but for what it is it's still the best modelled plane in DCS. If you can accept that, then play it. If you can't, then you'll have to modify (like the cockpit) or just refrain from playing dcs or this one plane. The Viper is quite good as well.