Faster change with 3-way switch leaves the gear lever in cockpit in the middle position

[virgo47]

This is not MiG-15 specific, I encountered the same issue with Yak-52, but I see it as a control bug. I have a 3-way switch for the gear lever with each position mapped. But when I flip the position quicker, the lever in the cockpit stays in the middle:

Technically, the middle position "button' on the lever is generated by the "Boolean" function in VKB config software (virtual button when none of the up/down positions is on), but I this is of no consequence - as demonstrated by the very reliable action in the Controls itself. It's very responsive there.

Also, I thought it had something to do with the "pulse" action of the buttons - as I have it set to 50ms pulse instead of press-n-hold to avoid undesirable cockpit changes when I forget the lever in the "wrong" position before the mission. I nearly stopped writing this report - but to my surprise, this bug is present with normal button action as well.

I even tried to map up-neutral-down to keys 4-5-6 and went from 4 (up) through 5 (quickly) to 6 (and held it) - and the handle still stayed in the middle position. Simply put, until the plane doesn't do "its thing" in the middle position, it ignores any presses towards the extreme positions. This makes mapping the middle position on the lever itself counter-intuitive. I FEEL what I did. But the plane DIDN'T do it.

There should be some kind of queuing for these actions. I the up/down comes after the neutral, it should be executed.

Edited June 25, 2024 by virgo47

[K-dot-B]

This must be a DCS-wide issue, because I've had the same thing happen with three way switches in the Harrier.

[okopanja]

56 minutes ago, K-dot-B said:

This must be a DCS-wide issue, because I've had the same thing happen with three way switches in the Harrier.

From module to module it depends how the switch/trigger events are registered. Typically there is a minimal amount of time needed to remain at high level, before DCS registers the event.

E.g. Ka50, F16.

However, there are examples where this is not the case, like JF17, where triggers are instant.

For each device the lua declaration provides a variable declaring on how frequently the device is being processed. You might want to play with this and see if it helps, however editing lua will result in integrity check failure.

At the moment I am away from home and can not tell you the name of the var.

[okopanja]

On 11/19/2023 at 7:28 PM, virgo47 said:

I even tried to map up-neutral-down to keys 4-5-6 and went from 4 (up) through 5 (quickly) to 6 (and held it) - and the handle still stayed in the middle position

I think the issue here is 3 signals bring independant and arriving faster than minimal time needed to register event. You might want to try to delay the pulses relative to each other with timers.

Also changing the switch type from default one in VKB might provide you with instant solution. My Gladiator is not with me, but I also do not have 3 state switch.

Edited January 4, 2024 by okopanja

[virgo47]

7 hours ago, okopanja said:

I think the issue here is 3 signals bring independant and arriving faster than minimal time needed to register event. You might want to try to delay the pulses relative to each other with timers.

Also changing the switch type from default one in VKB might provide you with instant solution. My Gladiator is not with me, but I also do not have 3 state switch.

I tried both pulses and button behavior in VKB software, no difference, but also tried with the keyboard keys. The issue is either solvable on DCS end or not at all. As I described, even if the extreme position button is held (and SW indicates so), it will not register anymore if it was pressed during the "animation" (or whatever causes this behavior) to the middle position.

In other words - even if the button for extreme position is press and held (not "pulse" behavior), it doesn't matter. DCS will ignore it if it came too soon.

[Flappie]

Same issue for the L-39 rear seat.

I'll ask devs about this behaviour.

[virgo47]

Recently also complained about here:

[okopanja]

1. Can you export your VKB config for STECS please?

I assume you are trying to use white up/down lever in left-most-bottom-most position. What is interesting is that that level maps to different physical position on my STECS. (  )

E.g. I got: physical 63/64 (UP/DOWN) mapped to 58/57. The middle position I got as an output of AND logical function mapped to virtual 98. In my case the 57, 58 and virtual 98 are holding the signal all the time.

In addition, whenever I move the lever to different position, the stick sends the Pressed signal for new state and Released signal for old state.

One thing that you may try is to convert the UP/DOWN from Button into Pulse Generator. This way when you flip the switch to UP/DOWN, it will generate a pulse(s). There are different types of pulses, but e.g. you can use GT generator to specify the length of the pulse.

See second picture I added here GT generator with 10x10ms x 10 (results in 1000ms). This way the UP/DOWN will generate 1 second hold, followed by transition to low.

nullnullNote that 98 will keep behaving like as permanent HOLD since in my case it does take physical input.

[virgo47]

7 hours ago, okopanja said:

1. Can you export your VKB config for STECS please?

I'm not sure if you meant me, but this is not STECS-specific as demonstrated by using keys instead. So this event processing thing should be fixed on DCS end.

My STECS setup is actually very similar to yours, boolean "creates" the middle button and I had pulse on all of them. With no pulse on the middle, the behavior is the same. GT does not work, because I tested with the keyboard - even if you press and hold the key for outer position. It stays stuck in the middle, probably because the "up" transition for the button was already missed.

However, with all the talk about pulses, I came up with some idea. VKB offers GTR2 generator which generates two pulses with some space. I went for 600 ms (value 60 in the input) and this "repeats" the input again, if the first one was missed. This works great for Yak-52 and L-39 back seat:

Alas, nothing comes free - in MiG-15bis the Gear Up and Down commands, believe it or not, work as toggles! I have to check whether there are some alternatives with Queggle's command injector, but this sucks.

All in all, with STECS/VBK config software, there are some possibilities how to repeat the pulse twice (or repeat the pulses all the time, but that's not what I want for other reasons). This is just a workaround for what I believe is DCS input processing problem. And any plane can surprise you with a silly unexpected toggle binding instead of a normal one.

[okopanja]

One thing you can try, is to experiment with OFF event in DCS itself. Aside from the regular push event, there is also an OFF event.

Still I agree with you: this is more of the workaround.

[virgo47]

12 minutes ago, okopanja said:

One thing you can try, is to experiment with OFF event in DCS itself. Aside from the regular push event, there is also an OFF event.

I don't quite understand, can you elaborate?

[okopanja]

1 minute ago, virgo47 said:

I don't quite understand, can you elaborate?

go to the action table in DCS. Open any action, hit the button on STECS, then click on combo box and you should see along normal button presses additional button OFF events.

I used this once for one of the detents for engine to IDEL that I could not get to work any other way.

[virgo47]

1 minute ago, okopanja said:

go to the action table in DCS. Open any action, hit the button on STECS, then click on combo box and you should see along normal button presses additional button OFF events.

I used this once for one of the detents for engine to IDEL that I could not get to work any other way.

Ah, I see what you mean now. I'll think about it, right now I'm not sure how it would help me, but perhaps I'll find some usages.

[hsth]

I use these combinations on more settings for different planes, gears & flaps.

[virgo47]

1 minute ago, hsth said:

I use these combinations on more settings for different planes, gears & flaps.

Nice one! I use K-switch (3 buttons) for flaps. And for the flip switch I mapped the middle position with the boolean function, so it actually acts like the physical button. That's why I didn't need this so far, but it may still be handy - thanks for sharing the tips!