This video will change your mind about F-14

[Uxi]

On 12/7/2023 at 6:58 AM, cheezit said:

 

I think this is true for the Hornet and the Viper, but not the Eagle.  The Eagle was probably 75% of the maintenance problem that the F-14A was (somewhat fewer hydraulic problems and many fewer electronics problems) - while the Air Force doesn't publish maintenance hours per flight hour numbers like the Navy and USMC do, it does publish costs per flight hour, and the Eagle is more expensive than other 4th gen jets by a mile; the exact numbers differ from annual report to annual report, but it's generally about 2x what the F-16 costs to run (circa $40k vs $20k/hour in recent years, with fuel costs making up only a small fraction of that difference).  Even the projected target cost-per-flight-hour of the F-15EX (designed to be more maintainable) is still high compared to everything else 4th-gen that's still in the air, and that's a number coming from the manufacturer's sales & marketing department, not an observed figure.

 

Indeed and both were the compromise light fighter competitors following on the heels on max performance and capability platforms to supplement in quantity what was too expensive in quality. 

ST-21 would have been better overall than anything but Grumman is at least as much to blame as anyone. The F-14D(R) program was a good idea but was the short term justification for killing new construction.  The criticism about F-14D being a 'jobs program' is actually pretty close to the mark and the Congressional dynamic showed it (the NY representation in both parties were all for it while everyone else was pretty much against it and backed up SECDEF on that in 91.  SECNAV Lehman was for the 600 ship Navy but also recognized the F-14D was key to protecting it and the Hornet being insufficient. 

The truth is that the 'peace divident' was a farce.  US Navy commitments have not reduced and they need the hulls... perhaps not 600 but both the canceled CGN-X and Strike Cruiser and more carriers are needed for the current deployment schedule.  Being cheap has caused them to skip on maintenance and training.  Too many vids of rusted hulls and the unfortunate incidents around of the USS Fitzgerald and USS John Finn and their skippers being relieved, etc. The F-22 procured in quantity would have been much cheaper and we could be on F-14F or F-24C (presuming ST-21 was F-14E or F-24A depending how that played out).  Admiral Manazir aka Nasty was spot on when he told Ward Carroll about the Navy's tendency to backslide capability when new planes replace the old ones before they're ready and the Super Hornets were definitely not ready when the Tomcats were retired.  

[RogerRamjet]

I was friends with a F-14 pilot for many years (he has since passed away) and asked him about fighting the F-15. His response was: "Above 30,000ft the F-15 has the advantage, below 30,000ft I feel I have the advantage." In most cases with that generation of fighter, it comes down to the pilot and tactics used...

Edited December 12, 2023 by RogerRamjet

[IronMike]

I have not ever come across an aircraft, or anything that can fly for that matter, which I do not like. I may mock Vipers and Hornets, because it is natural, but in all honesty, how can one not like any one aircraft, when in reality you'd give anything to get the opportunity to fly it just once, which for me also counts for sims. The only thing I mourn, is that I have not more time to fly all the modules in all the sims more. 

From a glider, to a Wilga pulling it, to a kit aircraft, let alone any kind of fighter jet.

 

[FR4GGL3]

Don't worry, we won't let him provoke us. This whole "will change your mind" thing doesn't make sense. All I know is that the Modelling of the F-14 has gotten a lot of love from you and your SMEs. That's the only thing that I care about.

Oh and maybe some upcoming Modelling Improvements for the F-14 that the F-4 will have right from the start. You know all the rattling and shaking.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Just imagine a naval F-15 with all of the extra weight due to carrier capability, AND then imagine it having all of the extra equipment needed to operate the AIM-54 successfully (cooling, avionics, 2nd crewman, ...).
Imagine that F-15 going gunzo against an F-14 and how that would end up.

So no, it didn't change my mind  

[Billy]

F-14 is like the F-22, there is a huge threat, and an extremely capable platform is needed. Both planes achieved the needed superior capabilities by smart engineering, but the technology is still the older technology. Both planes absolutely dominated in their first 20 years of service, but near the end of that they see a lot of new rivalries with the same capabilities. The rivalries gained capabilities through improvements of technologies, such as the F-15 receiving AMRAAMs, or the F-35 having better sensors and electronics. Still, for another 20 years the F-14 and the F-22 will show competence, the thoughts put in their design are at work. Even if you upgrade them with new technologies, they will dominate. But the smart optimizations that granted it superior capabilities now hold it off, it's expensive to change them. All the optimizations for the AWG-9 and the AIM-54 are not needed, fleet defense is no longer needed, and the newer round of technology is coming up. (5th generation/6th generation fighters)

The F-15 is like the B-52 though. I will not be surprised if it out serves the F-22. 

[winghunter]

This refers to an era, when the Tomcat had an artificial G limit imposed, due to maintenance cost.

In the 80s the Tomcat smoked the Eagle in BFM and BVR

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by winghunter

[captain_dalan]

My eyes have been opened! I am going to name my firstborn after this guy!!!