need more information INS issue

IR.Clutch · December 27, 2023

Hello,

It's very confusing that I don't see a similar problem here on the forum. I'm going through the "Weasels over Syria" campaign and every time I take off, INS immediately works incorrectly. The Fix(8) - "overfly" partially helps. But I can't get it 100% correct. @Lord Vader It's really pissing me off, to be honest I've tried repair so far. Thanks

ins-pb.zip

BIGNEWY · December 27, 2023

Hi,

please keep calm, we can take a look but it will take time.

We would like to see your dcs log also as you seem to be using modifications, its possible something maybe creating a problem and the log may have clues.

If you have not already remove all unofficial mods and run a slow repair of DCS.

thanks

IR.Clutch · December 27, 2023

56 минут назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

please keep calm, we can take a look but it will take time.

I'm calm)! Thanks, I'll try to delete what I can and repair. But the issues have started since the last update. I'll keep you posted.

BIGNEWY · December 27, 2023

1 hour ago, IR.Clutch said:

I'm calm)! Thanks, I'll try to delete what I can and repair. But the issues have started since the last update. I'll keep you posted.

thanks, and dont forget the dcs log, it should give us some clues hopefully

Sinclair_76 · December 27, 2023

@IR.Clutch How does the INS error show? What do you intend to demonstrate with the red arrow in your description?

skywalker22 · December 27, 2023

10 minutes ago, Sinclair_76 said:

@IR.Clutch How does the INS error show? What do you intend to demonstrate with the red arrow in your description?

I don't get it too. Can you please do a short track only which will have this issue included?

IR.Clutch · December 27, 2023

41 минуту назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

thanks, and dont forget the dcs log, it should give us some clues hopefully

i have removed some F-16 root directory mods for VR, also Bartek mod. Slow repair. Same issue. The direction on all the sensors(HUD, TGP) is not correct. Although I'm flying heading steerpoint 1. For this reason, the target positions are also incorrect. Overfly fix has fixed it +- correctly. It's not an INS drift, as soon as I get airborne, everything is already incorrect.

ins-pb2.trk dcs.log

Edited December 27, 2023 by IR.Clutch

BIGNEWY · December 27, 2023

Custom Mods
Insurgent-SF-4x4,Civil Aircraft Mod,Massun92-Asset Pack,ECHO19_CORE,Tacview,USN LCAC Land,DCS-SRS,SAMSitesAssetPack,Ze Dim' New Static Packv0.4

Error
unfinished string near '"Effects/Aircrafts/Engines/Su25InEngineR'''
Line
1
Script
/sounds/40/sdef/aircrafts/engines/su25inenginer.sdef
Error
'=' expected near '-'
Line
9
Script
/sounds/38/Sounders/GroundUnits/WeaponSystem/IFV/toyota_desert....
Error
attempt to index local 'DED_fields' (a nil value)
Line
341
Script
C:\Users\airsh\Saved Games\DCS\Scripts\JanJan\JanJan_Export.lua

Hi,

I would try removing all unofficial mods, Im not in a position to test this right now but I will take a closer look in the morning.

thanks for the data

IR.Clutch · December 28, 2023

23 часа назад, BIGNEWY сказал:

but I will take a closer look in the morning

I found a problem, after the alignment of the Mavericks INS is showing incorrectly. If I don't do the alignment on the ground and take off immediately, everything is fine. I did another full repair and the latest update today, also removed a couple more mods from Saved Games, but I've had them for months now and haven't had any issues. No mods in the root folder at all.

rob10 · December 28, 2023

3 hours ago, IR.Clutch said:

I found a problem, after the alignment of the Mavericks INS is showing incorrectly. If I don't do the alignment on the ground and take off immediately, everything is fine. I did another full repair and the latest update today, also removed a couple more mods from Saved Games, but I've had them for months now and haven't had any issues. No mods in the root folder at all.

The fact that you've had the ".... mods for months now and haven't had any issues." really is meaningless because there are a bunch of mods that needed updating because they were incompatible with the latest updates. They could well have worked fine 5 minutes prior to updating and be causing oddball issues (and there are a really wide range of symptoms with the last big patch) as soon as the patch was installed. If you have any mods in your Saved Games you could well still be having issues from them.

IR.Clutch · December 29, 2023

13 часов назад, rob10 сказал:

If you have any mods in your Saved Games you could well still be having issues from them.

Ok, I've removed all except SRS and Tacview. The issue is still there. After the Mavericks are aligned, INS shows incorrectly. On the HSD the heading to SP is correct, only on the sensors is incorrect. @BIGNEWY

dcs.log

Edited December 29, 2023 by IR.Clutch

skywalker22 · December 29, 2023

Do some short track, don't post some huge ones (like you did before). Few minitues max. All thats important include in the replay.

Does this happen on cold and/or hot start (on the ground and&or in mid air)?

IR.Clutch · December 29, 2023

36 минут назад, skywalker22 сказал:

Do some short track, don't post some huge ones

The track itself is short actually, just because it's a "Weasels" campaign, there are a lot of events. There are startup, alignment and takeoff, The most important parts. Cold start with the Mavericks alignment on the ground. Everything is fine without the alignment.

Edited December 29, 2023 by IR.Clutch

xanstin · December 29, 2023

Assuming you did a CZ (Cursor Zero) after as moving the TGP around for maverick alignment will offset waypoints by the proportional amounts on the hud diamond. HSD will still show correctly, but the symbology of the SPI will be offset on all nav points.

skywalker22 · December 29, 2023

3 hours ago, IR.Clutch said:

The track itself is short actually, just because it's a "Weasels" campaign, there are a lot of events. There are startup, alignment and takeoff, The most important parts. Cold start with the Mavericks alignment on the ground. Everything is fine without the alignment.

Can you reproduce this issue in your custom simple mission, created in the mission editor?

IR.Clutch · December 29, 2023

1 час назад, xanstin сказал:

Assuming you did a CZ (Cursor Zero) after as moving the TGP around for maverick alignment

No, I didn't. And btw SnowPlow is supposed to move the TGP cursor in front, but that didn't work. So I was moving the cursor from somewhere to the side for alignment.

IR.Clutch · December 29, 2023

OK, I already thought that the issue was only with Mavericks, but in mission 5 after using Harms the same problem appears. I don't understand anything anymore. There's some sort of SPI problem. On the way back, RTB, all went wrong again.

Edited December 29, 2023 by IR.Clutch

itn · December 29, 2023

Seeing that you have TGP page readily available on right MFD, switch to that and try TMS Aft or CZ (if "CZ" shown). If it doesn't work, try switching steerpoint back and forth (sometimes needed with edited steerpoints of fresh markpoints).

SickSidewinder9 · December 30, 2023

The TGP seems very "sticky". In other words, when changing waypoints, even with the TGP in standby because a jettison switched the plane out of AG mode (and therefore the TGP into standby) the steering info is often incorrect when the waypoint is then changed. It still points to...somewhere. maybe where the TGP was last locked, but I think it's closer to where the TGP was looking right before it completely stows itself. I'll try to get a track.

It's really frustrating that the plane, especially when in NAV, doesn't navigate to where it should. It's getting old constantly triple checking that I'm headed in the right direction. It seems like something has always been super weird with the F-16 and steering cues.

And CZ or TMS down doesn't seem to be available in standby, so I have to switch the airplane, or at least the pod, back to AG and do a TMS down with the TGP screen as SOI to make sure I'm headed remotely in the right direction. I could be misremembering a little but it definitely has always been frustrating and it some ways, it seems to have gotten worse. Shouldn't switching to NAV via push button or stores jettison give me, ya know, proper navigation (again, the TGP is set to standby in NAV mode)? Maybe check the code and make sure SPIs are deselected when entering NAV?

Edited December 30, 2023 by SickSidewinder9

itn · December 30, 2023

This might be about the cursor delta. In October I put in (an erroneous) bug report about steerpoint offsets. It ended up being not a bug, but the longish discussion helped with understanding delta and CZ in different modes. See the linked thread if you're unsure about cursor delta and CZ logic. It will be more clear once you "use it" a few times.

I'm not an expert but just guessing on the discussion in this thread:

In @IR.Clutch's HTS case I think you simply get cursor delta when designating with HTS. That delta stays until you remove it by using CZ (or TMS Aft on TGP).
In @SickSidewinder9's case I suppose fastest way to reset the delta is to switch back to A-G master mode and use CZ on FCR, TGP or HSD.

In NAV mode, HSD does not have CZ button nor A-G ghost cursor. I wonder if these should be available also in NAV mode? They would be useful, but that doesn't mean the real jet has them. @Lord Vader care to check/comment on that?

IR.Clutch · December 30, 2023

9 часов назад, SickSidewinder9 сказал:

The TGP seems very "sticky"

Last time I haven't used TGP at all. It seems that even in the background TGP is changing the position of SPI? I've only used HTS and there is no CZ on HTS, I've used TMS down. But it doesn't really make sense. Ideally, switching back to NAV mode should override this.

IR.Clutch · December 30, 2023

I did a quick test and can finally confirm, after I designate SA-8 on HTS, TGP - no matter what mode, standby or A-G changes the SPI. Only CZ on TGP returns everything to its original position. TMS AFT on HTS doesn't do the same thing. I don't think it's quite logical and forces me to do unnecessary steps.. TGP in Standby should not change SPI. Also NAV mode theoretically should reset it @Lord Vader

Edited December 30, 2023 by IR.Clutch

SickSidewinder9 · January 1, 2024

Wild idea: Nav mode and steerpoint changes cause the planes steering cues to navigate to the steerpoint. Surely you don't need a publication from the DoD for this.

skywalker22 · January 5, 2024

On 1/5/2024 at 10:48 PM, SickSidewinder9 said:

More epic failures on the Nav system front:

I did a CCRP dumb bomb delivery sans TGP. Adjust the impact point/steerpoint manually on the HUD. That offset then stayed persistent on every waypoint even in NAV mode. Nothing to TMS down. Fortunately, it wasn't off by much. On the ground, I think I got it to reset by going back into AG mode. Resecting the bombs I didn't have anymore (being in gun strafe mode didn't revert the offset) and switching to CCIP. Not sure TMS down on anything fixed it.

Again, I cannot overstate how incredibly fucking frustrating it is having a nav system that doesn't navigate. And the recent updates have only made it more temperamental!

Did you saved the track?

itn · January 6, 2024

On 1/5/2024 at 10:48 PM, SickSidewinder9 said:

More epic failures on the Nav system front:

I did a CCRP dumb bomb delivery sans TGP. Adjust the impact point/steerpoint manually on the HUD. That offset then stayed persistent on every waypoint even in NAV mode. Nothing to TMS down. Fortunately, it wasn't off by much. On the ground, I think I got it to reset by going back into AG mode. Resecting the bombs I didn't have anymore (being in gun strafe mode didn't revert the offset) and switching to CCIP. Not sure TMS down on anything fixed it.

Again, I cannot overstate how incredibly frustrating it is having a nav system that doesn't fucking navigate. And the recent updates have only made it more temperamental!

Cursor Zero. You can find it at least on the following pages: FCR (FCR A-G modes), HSD (A-G master mode) and on TGP (TGP A-G mode). TMS Aft works on TGP, but you didn’t have one. Easiest is to switch to A-G and use CZ on HSD. Unless you had FCR on A-G mode (e.g. GM) in which case you’d just use CZ on FCR

i asked Lord Vader above about not having CZ on HSD in NAV mode but no reply so far. As I understood from the explanation given earlier, in the linked thread, cursor deltas are per mode. But seeing that you can reset delta seen in NAV by going into A-G and using CZ, I’m not sure I understand it fully or that it’s consistent. In any case as you can have delta in NAV, it would make sense to have CZ on HSD in NAV mode too.

Regardless, CZ is your friend now more than ever. TMS Aft is an additional control in some contexts, but CZ is more prevalent.

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need more information INS issue

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