Best Upgrade Path w/ my G2 and possible new PC Parts?

[The_Nephilim]

Hey Guys,

 

I currently have a Reverb G2 and am planning on keeping that for a bit longer. what I was thinking of doing was get a new CPU/Mobo or GPU? I currently have a 10700K and a eVGA 2080Ti GPU..

 

What would be the better upgrade choice for me currently. now I just wanted to say I can currently play with my FPS above 60 @ arounf 78-85FPS but I ONLY use 60HZ to keep it super smooth in VR. I really am not needing an upgrade but getting the itch sice GPU's are somewhat back in the normal pricing range..

 

I am not looking for a 4090 or what not maybe not even a 4080 so like either a used 3090 or a 4070 or new CPU combo what do you guys think?

[diego999]

Depends on the price you can get the card you want, but a 4070ti Super would be a nice upgrade for your 2080ti. That's the card I want to replace my 3060ti down the line.

This is a personal opinion, but I think the 4xxx cards only make sense from the regular 4070ti onwards.

A regular 4070 could work, just avoid the 4060 and 4060ti as these are hot garbage.

3090 would be fantastic, if you can get an used one from a trusted site that will back you up if there is any problem.

Your CPU upgrade, well, depends on the missions you're playing. I have a 10400 and for me in SP with not very complex missions, it is enough. For now.

If you play MP on a regular basis with complex missions and lots of units, scripts, etc, yeah, you might want to start looking to upgrade your CPU.

[The_Nephilim]

Well when I upgrade the cPU I had from the 9700 to a 10700K and was going to get a different GPU at the time but that was when the GPU's went crazy pricing and availability.

 

I was just curious of others had made an upgrade to either a newer CPU or GPU and can say for sure if it was worth upgrading.. I currently can play any mission in DCS even in online mode and still stay above 60FPS which makes the VR smooth as butter.

 

But I was just curious to what others thought of which direction should I go. I may just get a used PC Parts for my nephew and just get a upgraded GPU.. What is wrong with the 4070?

[diego999]

1 hour ago, The_Nephilim said:

 What is wrong with the 4070?

 

Nothing. It's a solid card, but it was (until recently) too expensive for the performance it offered (not a great improvement over the 3070 and significantly more expensive). With the recent price cut, it now starts to make sense.

As I said, it depends on the price you can get one. At $600 or more, like it was some months ago, it's a bad deal. If you can get one for less than $500, I'd say go for it. 

 

 

 

Edited February 18 by diego999

[The_Nephilim]

Well I may look at the 4070Super, but if these cards are not much better then the 3070's maybe I will hold off all together? I will look for some benchmarks for those cards 3070 vs 4070..

 

thank you

[LucShep]

In regards to the upgrade to a new CPU, notice that will also require a new motherboard, and probably new RAM and a new CPU cooler as well.
You may end up spending a lot for not a huge improvement there - careful with expectations.

I build systems somewhat frequently and, even with Intel 13900K and AMD X3D builds done, I'll tell you right away that, sure, you'd notice the improvement in performance with the upgrade, but it's not the "WOW" factor that some comments may let you wonder.  The i7 10700K and i9 10900K may be getting old but are still good, IMO.

Honestly, I'd wait for Intel 15th gen (later this year) and then decide. And if it turns out to be mediocre (I doubt it, but....) and you really want to upgrade then, I think the AMD Ryzen 7800X3D with a mid-range AM5 motherboard and DDR5 6000 CL30 should still be good for a dedicated gaming PC.

In your case, with i7 10700K overclocked and 64GB DDR4 3200 RAM, your performance deficit is (IMHO) solely on the GPU - the RTX 2080Ti was a great GPU back at its launch, but even the previous gen RTX 3070 matches its speed (minus the VRAM).

Either the RTX 4070Ti Super 16GB (~950€) or RX 7900XT 20GB (~850€) would be my pick for your case.
A used RTX 3090 24GB would be a great option but, good ones are still hard to find below 700€. Plus, it absolutely needs to be from a careful owner (no warranty, remember).

It's nearly two years since both Nvidia and AMD generations launched the current generation, so late 2024 should present new generation announcements - there's also that.
But... it's still a long way to go, and you may not want to wait.

Resuming, I'd say to pass on the CPU+Mobo+RAM upgrade for now, and focus on the GPU - spend on the best one that you can afford.

Edited February 18 by LucShep

[diego999]

51 minutes ago, The_Nephilim said:

Well I may look at the 4070Super, but if these cards are not much better then the 3070's maybe I will hold off all together? I will look for some benchmarks for those cards 3070 vs 4070..

 

thank you

 

4070 is around 25% faster than a 3070.

4070ti is around 25% faster than a 4070.

Then throw the supers in the mix. They don't offer much improvement in raw performance (around 10-15% better than the non-super version), but they have more VRAM. But they're more expensive.

Kind of a mess right now.

 

 

[kksnowbear]

There are some good points above, but I'd like to throw in a factor that seems to be missing (and is always a part of the considerations): Budget.

The point is made above about the 10700K you have is true: It's not too bad even by current standards; this is a product of the last several generations of CPUs (Intel at least) being only so-so in terms of performance increase above the prior gen:  Since the 9th gen, not a huge leap forward til maybe the 13th/14th gen.  (And yes, I have tested examples through this range first hand).

There is also the well-taken point that, considering you're talking about VR performance, while the 2080Ti is adequate (as you've described) , VR is really demanding on a GPU.

What all this means taken together, then, (to me) says:

1. You'd need to upgrade the GPU (to improve VR performance).  The more you want to improve that performance, the more GPU you will require (and thus, budget is a factor).

2. I strongly prefer to avoid the term "bottleneck", instead I prefer to look at it more as how balanced or matched the CPU and GPU are, because I believe this presents a more accurate technical picture.  That said, right now you have a fairly 'matched' system (the 10700k with the 2080Ti).   The 2080Ti is very slightly over-matched if you were running 1080P, but certainly not at VR resolution.  However, once you change GPUs in order to see better performance in VR as per step 1 above, you're now approaching a situation where the CPU and GPU are not as closely matched (since the GPU was increased).  So, you'd need to seriously consider increasing the CPU side of the equation - and, as mentioned above, because your 10700K isn't terrible, and because the last few Intel generations are sort of 'meh' comparatively...then you'd have to take a pretty big step to get an upgrade that's "worth it".  And, realistically, whenever we start saying "worth it", what we're doing (like it or not) is we're now folding in another factor: Budget.

There is very little doubt that the 7800X3D is the best you could hope for in terms of upgrading your CPU.  Of course, as above, upgrading your CPU will require changing motherboards and (for an upgrade that's "worth it) may require new RAM (if you land on a platform that requires DDR5).  I follow prices routinely, and I can tell you that if we consider worst case/retail right now, a 7800X3D platform upgrade (CPU, motherboard, and 64G RAM) can quickly approach or even exceed $800 (depends on specific board and RAM).  I looked not long ago and came up with $925 after local 6% sales tax for 6000MT RAM and a B650E board.  I don't want to start a pissing contest here, but my strongest professional recommendation would be that if you're paying to change to an AM5 platform anyway, it makes no sense to go with a PCIe 4.0 board.  Stick with X670E or B650E.  Even if it's not apparent today, for the difference in cost it will be apparent soon enough.

And this is why I say budget: We're looking somewhere north of $800 or even $900 for the platform upgrade (and this is *after* the GPU).  Yes, there are some deals you can find to save a good deal of money on an AM5 platform, but they usually involve getting a basic board and RAM, which themselves aren't really appropriate to the top-end 7800X3D.  You can go with a lesser CPU and save money, of course...but then, you're basically 'undoing' the entire point of upgrading the platform in the first place: If you go far enough, it's not going to be enough of a change to make it "worth" the cost.  Right now, the local MicroCenter has a 7800X3D bundle that would run $525+ depending on taxes, but that's with a basic B650 board and only 32G RAM.  It is NOT AT ALL the same thing as what I'm citing (at $925), which is why it's only $525.

Budget:  I'm not sure why, but people seem funny about discussing budget...but the reality is, it's typically easiest to set a budget first, then try to find something "worth it" within the budget.

The budget can be adjusted if you really want to get more of a performance upgrade.  But there is absolutely no point to go over all the possible options if you already know you don't intend to spend more than "X" (whatever that is for you).  When we're looking at 700, 800, 900+ in costs plus a GPU, and (strictly an example here) you know you only have 600 absolute max...well, not much point drooling over a 7800X3D

If your budget is constrained below the range of AM5 + GPU, then I'd say you should consider a good used GPU and platform upgrade (CPU, motherboard) for a 5800X or X3D which will allow you to re-use your RAM and thus knock a good chunk out of the cost.  The 5800X/3D *will * perform better than a lot of the 9th-10th-11th gen Intel stuff, (I own some of all these, and have tested first hand and extensively)...but it is absolutely true to say the increase will not be the "WOW" that some stuff you read leads you to believe.  I also believe the impact of CPU upgrades is often overstated on this site and others - this is a big reason I do not care for the 'bottleneck' concept.  The CPU will have impact of course, but GPU is always the one doing more of the real work (and that's first hand, from someone who went through 3090 to 4090 and 9900K to 5800X3D to 7800X3D in less than the past year).  I've also built many of each of these class machines for others recently and still do it every day.  I've recently sold/built/tested two 3090s, a 3090Ti, a 4090 GPUs, on 7800X3D, 5800X3D, 5800X, 11700K, 9900K etc etc etc...lol

Best deal you're going to make, IMHO: Find a used GPU and high-end AM4 CPU/board, keep your DDR4 (or trade it - read on).  Work with someone who will offer you trade in on used parts if you have anything to trade.  It is not always true that buying used means no warranty, nor is it always a mystery/question mark in terms of what you're getting.  Yes, this is true if you buy from auction sites or even Facebook marketplace...but deal with reputable people who sell and guarantee used hardware, plus allow returns and warranty, and take trade ins...can't go wrong.

Edited February 19 by kksnowbear

[Eaglewings]

5 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

 

There is very little doubt that the 7800X3D is the best you could hope for in terms of upgrading your CPU.  Of course, as above, upgrading your CPU will require changing motherboards and (for an upgrade that's "worth it) may require new RAM (if you land on a platform that requires DDR5).  I follow prices routinely, and I can tell you that if we consider worst case/retail right now, a 7800X3D platform upgrade (CPU, motherboard, and 64G RAM) can quickly approach or even exceed $800 (depends on specific board and RAM).  I looked not long ago and came up with $925 after local 6% sales tax for 6000MT RAM and a B650E board.  I don't want to start a pissing contest here, but my strongest professional recommendation would be that if you're paying to change to an AM5 platform anyway, it makes no sense to go with a PCIe 4.0 board.  Stick with X670E or B650E.  Even if it's not apparent today, for the difference in cost it will be apparent soon enough.

 

 

Cpu/motherboard/DDR5 Ram bundles offers at Microcenter right now are looking very good. $469.99 for AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX v2, G.Skill Flare X5 Series 32GB DDR5-6000 Kit, Computer Build Bundle. That is if you live in the US.

 

[Eaglewings]

16 hours ago, The_Nephilim said:

Well I may look at the 4070Super, but if these cards are not much better then the 3070's maybe I will hold off all together? I will look for some benchmarks for those cards 3070 vs 4070..

 

thank you

I can relate to the itch to upgrade. I have equally been looking at the 4070 series GPU as an upgrade from my rtx3070. I have a Ryzen 5 5600 CPU and rtx 3070. Doing great on my 1440P monitor even at maxed-out settings(Singleplayer mode 99% of the time)). My rusty Samsung Odyssey Plus VR Headset is fine but not at a level I would like in terms of clarity and performance. I am more leaning toward waiting for the next-gen line of GPUs from Nvidia and AMD. 

IMHO, the 4070ti super would be a much more valuable upgrade 

[kksnowbear]

17 hours ago, Eaglewings said:

Cpu/motherboard/DDR5 Ram bundles offers at Microcenter right now are looking very good. $469.99 for AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Gigabyte B650 Gaming X AX v2, G.Skill Flare X5 Series 32GB DDR5-6000 Kit, Computer Build Bundle. That is if you live in the US.

 

In the very same post you quoted, I already mentioned the exact MicroCenter promo - though it does appear that very recently they've dropped the price another $30.  However, as I said above: It's a 32G kit, and the OP already has 64G.  Even moving to DDR5/AM5, it makes zero sense to cut your RAM capacity by half.

I also said that promo includes a basic, entry-level B650 board, and as I mentioned:

I don't want to start a pissing contest here, but my strongest professional recommendation would be that if you're paying to change to an AM5 platform anyway, it makes no sense to go with a PCIe 4.0 board.  Stick with X670E or B650E. 

Just to address some points you have obviously overlooked.

I love MicroCenter, we have two near where I live.  But that promo is an obvious effort to move hardware that is poorly matched, by bundling it with a 7800X3D (which is undoubtedly the name that they're betting novices will recognize).  That board would be better matched with a lower-end AM5 processor, not the top end.

You also can't buy anything at any MicroCenter without paying sales tax.  Here it's a fairly reasonable 6%; I know people here on this forum that live where it's over 8.5% - which bumps the actual price up to right about $510.

The price I cited above ($925) was inclusive of sales tax where I live, plus 64G of the same RAM, but with a board that actually makes sense with a top-end AM5 CPU, supporting not only PCIe 5.0 but also a few other nice features that make a difference in a high-end build.

(*NOTE: I'm actually laughing because, on the web page for that B650 board, Gigabyte has linked a SkatterBencher overclocking video that isn't even for that board, and uses a X670E board that has features which the B650 in the MicroCenter promo does not have.  The board Gigabyte has linked, with the features that make the SkatterBencher overclocking even possible in the first place is $500 by itself after taxes.  And it's not part of any  bundle deal at Microcenter either...in other words, just like I'm telling you: People who do this professionally know there's a difference in these parts, and they also know it's not at all the same thing to throw in a cheap-ass low end board with the best gaming CPU on the market right now.)  You add a $500 board with the CPU and the 64G RAM, you're now over $1100 (and that's if you only pay 6% sales tax).  The $925 price I cited is $175 less and still includes a decent PCIe 5.0 board.)

Edited February 19 by kksnowbear

[The_Nephilim]

OK well it seems that I should probally upgrade the GPU. I think I am going to hold off and see if new GPU's will be introduced this fall. No rush as my system runs more that adequate so all good I guess..

 

Thank you all