New old guy struggling with SA and visual target acquisition

[modsat]

Hi there

Quick background (can be skipped): Some 15-20 years ago I got Falcon 4 Allied Force and spent a summer climbing the learning curve. I had an absolute blast flying it. I could never get multiplayer to work, but the dynamic mission manager kept me happy and busy flying sorties. Eventually life got in the way and I stopped flying. Then 6-7 years ago I got a HTC VIVE and decided to take a look at DCS. I was impressed but also overwhelmed. I had to learn a new aircraft (F/A-18) since there was no F-16, and I somewhat stubbed my toes on the carrier landings and the lack of solo content. It felt lonely learning to fly by myself and the low resolution of the VIVE made viewing the cockpit a strained experience. I ended up giving up on the project and took up sim racing. I've been iRacing for years now having a blast. I recently upgraded my PC and bought a Pimax Crystal, and I was blown away by the fidelity. I decided to give DCS another go. I knew that the F-16 had arrived and that there is even a dynamic campaign module in the works. So I gave it a go and holy moly: DCS looks so awesome with high settings in the crystal. Blasting 'Highway to the dangerzone' in burner at takeoff has never been sweeter  . I'm re-learning the systems one by one and I'm currently reading through Chucks guide while watching tutorials on specific topics on youtube and practising different things in the jet. I'm planing on taking it online and finding someone to fly with, but I think I need to up my skills first. Right now I'm a charity case that need instructions for everything.

Now here is the problem (can also be skipped tbh): I feel like I'm learning the systems fine, but I'm really struggling with two things: my basic flight technique and my SA during A-G. I'm not able to locate targets. As an example I have tried the F-16 mission 'Home on the range' many times. I do not understand how to interpret the JTAC directions (he says: PA39357608 -- what does that mean?). I am not able to spot any smoke/WP that the briefing say will be deployed. I've flown the mission quite a few times now, so I know where the targets are, but I am not able to understand which targets (target is a convoy) to engage. I just bomb targets of opportunity. It's frustrating cause I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or how to practice getting better at it effectively.

The actual questions:

Are there any guides on how to actually fly the jet properly outside of combat? I can practise level turns, but I'm really missing some instructions fx regarding best parameters and how to best control a level turn (lots of throttle or lots of stick? etc.).

Are there any guides or do you have any tips for how to get better at understanding directions and locating targets when doing ground support? Right now I need a steerpoint on the bad guys to find them .

In sim racing coaching is a very normal thing (I guess because it is a very competitive discipline). Is there anything similar in DCS? Any respected community members that charge to give newbies some one on one teaching time? I feel like I could remove a lot of my frustrations with an hour or two of concentrated help from a skilled flyer. Obviously I would not expect anyone to just donate their time to teach a random forum member, so I am wondering if this is a service on offer anywhere?

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Kind regards

[RyanR]

Try the training missions. Most of them work. Some are broke.

I'm a month into DCS myself after decades of filght simming. The highs are high. The lows are low.

Tip: Any tutorial older than about six months is obsolete and no longer applicable. Either the developers changed something, or the sim is simply broke/bugged.

I'm hitting the point of finding a more "mature" aircraft model. I love the F-16, but I'm burned out from the bugs and lack of documentation.

-Ryan

[modsat]

I feel you. I'm struggling with the tutorials. There are so many and they are all incomplete. I'm trusting that finishing Chucks guide will help. Afaik it is fairly current. I've tried the training missions but I feel like they do not adress my issue, and I also simply do not have the patience to keep sitting through slow explanations when I re-start the mission. I waste too much time just waiting to "press spacebar to continue".

[diego999]

Have you tried these?

Viper Quick Practice & Proficiency Missions - v. 3.0; Current mission count: 76; Last updated: 12/3/2023.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3328191/

[Keith Briscoe]

For anyone looking for coaching/mentoring... I can highly recommend Tactical DCS discord community.  I'm happy to share my experience and help you get connected. 

Keith "Lefty"

[modsat]

23 minutes ago, diego999 said:

Have you tried these?

Viper Quick Practice & Proficiency Missions - v. 3.0; Current mission count: 76; Last updated: 12/3/2023.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3328191/

No have not seen those. Looks like a great setup for me to hone my skills. Thanks for the tip!

20 minutes ago, Keith Briscoe said:

For anyone looking for coaching/mentoring... I can highly recommend Tactical DCS discord community.  I'm happy to share my experience and help you get connected. 

Keith "Lefty"

That is very nice of you

[Raisuli]

Oh, man.

I'm not a pilot, so I have no basis for understanding pilot stuff.  I've flown sims for about forty three years, though, and always sucked at them.  Landing was just a case of flying at the ground until I was low enough for the wheels to touch.

In the last year or so I finally learned how to fly...by flying a sim that cannot be named.  Made a huge difference in how I fly DCS, though, because they do teach the basics there, as 'boring' as those basics are.  Came back to DCS and suddenly I can fly an F-5E, with no auto anything, straight and level.  Level break turns.  Landings like I actually know what I'm doing.  Well, except in an F-18 where you're supposed to fly at the ground until the wheels are close enough to touch...

And when flying doesn't take as much of your concentrations it's pretty amazing what you can find out there where the warheads meet the foreheads

Want to do something similar here and actually have the start of a mission to teach departure procedures (not that I actually follow any most of the time), but not sure how much time I want to invest or how much time people want to spend on the 'boring' basics.

 

[LastRifleRound]

5 hours ago, modsat said:

Hi there

Quick background (can be skipped): Some 15-20 years ago I got Falcon 4 Allied Force and spent a summer climbing the learning curve. I had an absolute blast flying it. I could never get multiplayer to work, but the dynamic mission manager kept me happy and busy flying sorties. Eventually life got in the way and I stopped flying. Then 6-7 years ago I got a HTC VIVE and decided to take a look at DCS. I was impressed but also overwhelmed. I had to learn a new aircraft (F/A-18) since there was no F-16, and I somewhat stubbed my toes on the carrier landings and the lack of solo content. It felt lonely learning to fly by myself and the low resolution of the VIVE made viewing the cockpit a strained experience. I ended up giving up on the project and took up sim racing. I've been iRacing for years now having a blast. I recently upgraded my PC and bought a Pimax Crystal, and I was blown away by the fidelity. I decided to give DCS another go. I knew that the F-16 had arrived and that there is even a dynamic campaign module in the works. So I gave it a go and holy moly: DCS looks so awesome with high settings in the crystal. Blasting 'Highway to the dangerzone' in burner at takeoff has never been sweeter  . I'm re-learning the systems one by one and I'm currently reading through Chucks guide while watching tutorials on specific topics on youtube and practising different things in the jet. I'm planing on taking it online and finding someone to fly with, but I think I need to up my skills first. Right now I'm a charity case that need instructions for everything.

Now here is the problem (can also be skipped tbh): I feel like I'm learning the systems fine, but I'm really struggling with two things: my basic flight technique and my SA during A-G. I'm not able to locate targets. As an example I have tried the F-16 mission 'Home on the range' many times. I do not understand how to interpret the JTAC directions (he says: PA39357608 -- what does that mean?). I am not able to spot any smoke/WP that the briefing say will be deployed. I've flown the mission quite a few times now, so I know where the targets are, but I am not able to understand which targets (target is a convoy) to engage. I just bomb targets of opportunity. It's frustrating cause I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or how to practice getting better at it effectively.

The actual questions:

Are there any guides on how to actually fly the jet properly outside of combat? I can practise level turns, but I'm really missing some instructions fx regarding best parameters and how to best control a level turn (lots of throttle or lots of stick? etc.).

Are there any guides or do you have any tips for how to get better at understanding directions and locating targets when doing ground support? Right now I need a steerpoint on the bad guys to find them .

In sim racing coaching is a very normal thing (I guess because it is a very competitive discipline). Is there anything similar in DCS? Any respected community members that charge to give newbies some one on one teaching time? I feel like I could remove a lot of my frustrations with an hour or two of concentrated help from a skilled flyer. Obviously I would not expect anyone to just donate their time to teach a random forum member, so I am wondering if this is a service on offer anywhere?

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Kind regards

I gotcha, keeping up with the update pace can be tough, but some of the systems this stuff is based around have been around for over a decade, including the JTAC. I recommend looking up some of the A10 videos on youtube of people dealing with the JTAC.

The code the guy gave you are coordinates in MGRS format. If you go on youtube and search "DCS Viper MGRS" you'll get a useful tutorial on that.

However, if you watch some of the videos on how to work with the JTAC, you'll see DCS is assuming some knowledge from you on how to work with JTAC you probably just don't have yet, namely that if you did a few more radio calls, you'd tell them you were inbound, and they would then mark the target with smoke, and the mission triggers would likely work at that point and you'd be able to proceed.

As far as sighting, I struggle with that, too. There is an option in labels to have, instead of labels which kill immersion, dots to be superimposed over all items. Visual acuity in DCS is MUCH WORSE than in real life, and ED knows it, but there just aren't many good options for it right now with the current tech, so this method is provided as a stop-gap until the engine is further refined. Don't be ashamed to use it, it's meant to be used and it's not cheating.

There's plenty of coaching available, I had a brief time with an online squadron. I can't remember their name, but they were very cool guys and life commitments didn't get in the way I'd still fly with them. I didn't need so much training at the time, but they did offer it. That's not helpful save for the fact they're out there and I don't really know anyone who had a terrible experience with one. The general cattiness you see on these forums goes away once people start talking to one another one-on-one in a cooperative environment. Good luck.

[modsat]

11 hours ago, Raisuli said:

Want to do something similar here and actually have the start of a mission to teach departure procedures (not that I actually follow any most of the time), but not sure how much time I want to invest or how much time people want to spend on the 'boring' basics.

Personally I do not find the basics boring. I have a blast just flying the plane around. I would just like to feel less lost when maneuvering. I don't feel like I'm actually practising, because I'm either not sure what I'm supposed to achieve or how I'm supposed to achieve it. Any material (mission, guides or whatever) that makes it more clear how to best fly the jet would be very velcome.

 

8 hours ago, LastRifleRound said:

I gotcha, keeping up with the update pace can be tough, but some of the systems this stuff is based around have been around for over a decade, including the JTAC. I recommend looking up some of the A10 videos on youtube of people dealing with the JTAC.

The code the guy gave you are coordinates in MGRS format. If you go on youtube and search "DCS Viper MGRS" you'll get a useful tutorial on that.

However, if you watch some of the videos on how to work with the JTAC, you'll see DCS is assuming some knowledge from you on how to work with JTAC you probably just don't have yet, namely that if you did a few more radio calls, you'd tell them you were inbound, and they would then mark the target with smoke, and the mission triggers would likely work at that point and you'd be able to proceed.

As far as sighting, I struggle with that, too. There is an option in labels to have, instead of labels which kill immersion, dots to be superimposed over all items. Visual acuity in DCS is MUCH WORSE than in real life, and ED knows it, but there just aren't many good options for it right now with the current tech, so this method is provided as a stop-gap until the engine is further refined. Don't be ashamed to use it, it's meant to be used and it's not cheating.

There's plenty of coaching available, I had a brief time with an online squadron. I can't remember their name, but they were very cool guys and life commitments didn't get in the way I'd still fly with them. I didn't need so much training at the time, but they did offer it. That's not helpful save for the fact they're out there and I don't really know anyone who had a terrible experience with one. The general cattiness you see on these forums goes away once people start talking to one another one-on-one in a cooperative environment. Good luck.

Thank you for a very useful reply. I will find a guide for MGRS (so many new acronyms to keep track of). The tip about labels are gold. I switched labels off, cause like you said, it destroyed my immersion. But it makes sense to use some less intrusive dots. I will absolutely give it a try. I totally feel you regarding the "cheating" part. It's like when sim-racing. I use a vertual rear view mirror, because the in game rear view mirror gives no near the same SA as in real life. In terms of SA I feel it actually makes it more realistic.

I checked a tutorial on JTAC before flying but it did not translate into the mission. The instructions on how to target with the HMCS were not correct. The explained keybinds did not work (TMS commands), and the tutorial said nothing about MGRS. I guess I will sample some more JTAC tutorials and look specifically for MGRS.

I will absolutely look for a wing. I'm going nuts hearing my wingman continuously calling contacts (is there a way to stop this?). I would so love to be on the wing of a real person. I feel like my skills are still so poor that I would be a liabilty in any wing, but maybe that is the wrong perspective. I checked TacticalDCS (suggested by Lefty above) and they seem to really focus on being nice to new guys and helping people learn instead of requiring profeciency up front. I will work up the courage to knock on their door 

[RyanR]

Are there any "just for fun" squads? I haven't done online simming in 25-30 years. Things got too serious too quick. Though, I bet the devolving furball world of the WWII sims probably doesn't exist with DCS jet folks.

I haven't seen good JTAC *tutorials*. Just people flying JTAC missions. Just doing a thing isn't isn't a tutorial. Wags has one, but the text is impossibly small.... and there's no breakdown of the lingo. The Reapers have one, but it's a real life guy doing the lazing.

-Ryan

[Raisuli]

13 minutes ago, modsat said:

Personally I do not find the basics boring. I have a blast just flying the plane around. I would just like to feel less lost when maneuvering. I don't feel like I'm actually practising, because I'm either not sure what I'm supposed to achieve or how I'm supposed to achieve it. Any material (mission, guides or whatever) that makes it more clear how to best fly the jet would be very velcome.

 

So, if you really want to improve do patterns in your F-16 (I used Incirlik for this).  Take off, leave your wheels down, turn over <that> building.  Maintain 1500 feet AGL (set your TACAN, course, and altimeter before takeoff).  Fly 1500' reciprocal until you get to <that> TV tower.  If there's nothing there put a static object on the ground where you want to make your base turn.  Turn final <there>.  Lots of stuff on the ground to use as references; streets, fields, buildings, whatever you put there yourself as cues.

Maintain level turns and constant altitude.  Use the same climb and descent rates.

BUT...only do one thing at a time.  Today I focus on turning at specific points and don't loose sleep if I wobble a little.  Once I can nail those turn points, then I think about altitude control, then I worry about speed control.  You get the idea.

I've spent hours doing touch and goes.  Remember in (non-Navy) aircraft the secret to landing is not to land.

Once your good at it switch direction.  If you've done left patterns switch to right.

I should make a mission for this.  Gates are a crutch, but they'll at least get you going the right direction.

[modsat]

1 hour ago, Raisuli said:

 

So, if you really want to improve do patterns in your F-16 (I used Incirlik for this).  Take off, leave your wheels down, turn over <that> building.  Maintain 1500 feet AGL (set your TACAN, course, and altimeter before takeoff).  Fly 1500' reciprocal until you get to <that> TV tower.  If there's nothing there put a static object on the ground where you want to make your base turn.  Turn final <there>.  Lots of stuff on the ground to use as references; streets, fields, buildings, whatever you put there yourself as cues.

Maintain level turns and constant altitude.  Use the same climb and descent rates.

BUT...only do one thing at a time.  Today I focus on turning at specific points and don't loose sleep if I wobble a little.  Once I can nail those turn points, then I think about altitude control, then I worry about speed control.  You get the idea.

I've spent hours doing touch and goes.  Remember in (non-Navy) aircraft the secret to landing is not to land.

Once your good at it switch direction.  If you've done left patterns switch to right.

I should make a mission for this.  Gates are a crutch, but they'll at least get you going the right direction.

Ironically landing is my biggest strength right now as I have done a ton of landings. Done touch and goes for hours. It's fun and easy to practise, but my touch downs have improved a lot more than my ability to fly the pattern properly. At this point I land it securely every time. Coming in straight I set her down like it's nobodys business. Flying the pattern I'm sketchy to say the least, but once the runway is in front of me I tend to put everything together fast and set it down first try (even if it is not pretty). The weak link is absolutely flying the pattern so I need to practise that more. What I really feel would benefit me, is a guide/tutorial where somebody explains the HOTAS application. Fx. let's say we are doing a 30 degree level turn and my nose starts dropping. Is the best way to correct that to pull back on the stick og to increase power - or both? That sort of thing. I know most of it is practise, but having "best practises" to go by is a gem imo.

If you make that mission, I'll fly it 

[Raisuli]

5 minutes ago, modsat said:

let's say we are doing a 30 degree level turn and my nose starts dropping. Is the best way to correct that to pull back on the stick og to increase power - or both?

If you make that mission, I'll fly it 

Depends.  Is your nose dropping because your speed is too low?  Bank angle too high?  Trim set wrong?  Nothing about this is an isolated system.  I typically bring -16s around the base leg to final too fast to make nose control easier, then back off to landing speed on final.  Is that 'right'?  No idea.  Works for me, though, especially since the boards are already out.   I have never been ordered to the ops shed or given a number to call on landing, even after flying down the Las Vegas strip at mach 1.3.

I'm not practicing for a job with the air national guard, so until I get better information or more skill I stick to 'works for me'.  You don't even want to know what the LSOs have to say about my chronic overshoots, but I generally end up on the boat.

[VZ_342]

3 hours ago, RyanR said:

Are there any "just for fun" squads? I haven't done online simming in 25-30 years. Things got too serious too quick. Though, I bet the devolving furball world of the WWII sims probably doesn't exist with DCS jet folks.

I haven't seen good JTAC *tutorials*. Just people flying JTAC missions. Just doing a thing isn't isn't a tutorial. Wags has one, but the text is impossibly small.... and there's no breakdown of the lingo. The Reapers have one, but it's a real life guy doing the lazing.

-Ryan

I know of two servers that are very patient and skilled for new people (there are several more, but these I have experienced):

 

Yappy's Training Server (Link to their Discord is in the description)

 

Sidekick's YouTube channel (specializing in iron bombing, link to their Discord is in the description)

d0ppler's formation flying practice mission

 

[Raisuli]

4 hours ago, modsat said:

If you make that mission, I'll fly it 

Remember when I said I work on consistency?  There's nothing like a bunch of green gates to tell you how inconsistent you are.  Leave your gear down or blast off and enter this from an overhead break, which ever you prefer.

Tested this in an F-5E and an F-16C, but no promises.  Downwind is 1.2nmi from baseline, which oddly enough is what you shoot for in an F-18 to land on a carrier, and ~1500' AGL.

Currently set for an F-16 (but you can edit the mission to make it anything you want), Caucuses because everyone has that, Maykop because it's flat, left because...well, partly because I fly the F-18 a lot, partly because I used to use the road as a reference, partly just because.

I will almost certainly make a carrier simulator version of this, but need to do the math to figure out the proper grove length for a stationary runway and the altitudes come down quite a bit.

Pattern Training vR0.1.miz

[modsat]

2 hours ago, Raisuli said:

Remember when I said I work on consistency?  There's nothing like a bunch of green gates to tell you how inconsistent you are.  Leave your gear down or blast off and enter this from an overhead break, which ever you prefer.

Tested this in an F-5E and an F-16C, but no promises.  Downwind is 1.2nmi from baseline, which oddly enough is what you shoot for in an F-18 to land on a carrier, and ~1500' AGL.

Currently set for an F-16 (but you can edit the mission to make it anything you want), Caucuses because everyone has that, Maykop because it's flat, left because...well, partly because I fly the F-18 a lot, partly because I used to use the road as a reference, partly just because.

I will almost certainly make a carrier simulator version of this, but need to do the math to figure out the proper grove length for a stationary runway and the altitudes come down quite a bit.

Pattern Training vR0.1.miz 13.02 kB · 0 downloads

That was extremely helpful. Thanks a lot! I was headed to bed, but saw that you had posted and decided to give it a go for a quick landing. Ended up doing 10 touch and goes and all of them could have been in my top10. This helps me on multiple levels. On thing is having the turn divided up in smaller pieces by the gates. That makes it easier for me to understand when its going wrong and understand where to go to get back on slope. Also, before I was never sure if I was doing things right (am I the right distance from the runway?). Now following an optimal path it is much easier for me to kind of memorize the sight picture of a good pattern. I will be using this mission a lot!

I would love to try a carrier simulator version of it. I have no idea how to set these things up by myself yet, but if you setup something similar for basic maneuvering, I would love to fly it. Fx take off from the same runway, but instead of going into the landing pattern you go up and fly just level turns - or really any maneuver worth practising would be great. It would help if the mission briefing gave some numbers to shoot for (fx specifying that the turn should be executed at 2G and 300 knts or something like that). I'm of course not expecting you to make me tutorials on demand here, just throwing the idea out there 

Edited April 6, 2024 by modsat

[Raisuli]

23 minutes ago, modsat said:

 

I would love to try a carrier simulator version of it. I have no idea how to set these things up by myself yet, but if you setup something similar for basic maneuvering, I would love to fly it. Fx take off from the same runway, but instead of going into the landing pattern you go up and fly just level turns - or really any maneuver worth practising would be great. It would help if the mission briefing gave some numbers to shoot for (fx specifying that the turn should be executed at 2G and 300 knts or something like that). I'm of course not expecting you to make me tutorials on demand here, just throwing the idea out there 

 

I just finished the carrier version.  Holy crap I suck!  Start 3 nm away and to starboard of the airfield for the overhead break, roll into downwind, roll into the groove, bolter pattern and original approach are on the same downwind, but vertically offset slightly at first which is a little confusing if you don't know what or why.  Three gates very close together on the runway...you better be flying through the first, your wheels should hit at the second, and you better fly through the third...makes it pretty clear how short those distances are!

I need to tweak a few things and some instructions might help.  Also added an F-18 and F-5 to the basic mission I already uploaded and that needs to be tested, but this is turning out better than I hoped.

[modsat]

7 hours ago, Raisuli said:

I just finished the carrier version.  Holy crap I suck!  Start 3 nm away and to starboard of the airfield for the overhead break, roll into downwind, roll into the groove, bolter pattern and original approach are on the same downwind, but vertically offset slightly at first which is a little confusing if you don't know what or why.  Three gates very close together on the runway...you better be flying through the first, your wheels should hit at the second, and you better fly through the third...makes it pretty clear how short those distances are!

I need to tweak a few things and some instructions might help.  Also added an F-18 and F-5 to the basic mission I already uploaded and that needs to be tested, but this is turning out better than I hoped.

That is great. I'm away from home today, but I look forward to trying it out when I get home tomorrow.

How do I find the download?

Thank you for your efforts Raisuli!

[Raisuli]

3 hours ago, modsat said:

That is great. I'm away from home today, but I look forward to trying it out when I get home tomorrow.

How do I find the download?

Bit of feature creep...

Took the A-4 out of this version; not everyone has it.  Only the F-18 for the carrier break because you'll hurt that dainty undercarriage in an F-16.  Don't switch slots; there's no way to turn gates off once they're on, so you'll end up with serious confusion.  Quit out and restart if you want to change planes (unless going from pattern work to chase work, where the gates are no factor, or vice versa the first time.  You'll get it)

For the carrier there's one set of gates for the initial break that descend into the gates for the touch and go.  It's only mildly confusing.  There are three close together on the runway; the first is the ramp, the second is the three wire, the third is the end of the deck.  Fly through the first and third, touch down in front of the second.  You'll want to be at mil power before the wheels stop smoking.

There's also a couple 'chase planes'.  B1B (everyone has it) flies around for 40 minutes; the chase planes are there to practice formations.  Take off close, keep up, try to maintain a stable position.  There are no cues the lead Bone is going to turn other than the lead Bone turning.  A bit like A2AR, where the tanker pilots maneuver around just to be spiteful.  Just remember if you have wake turbulence set up that bomber will flip you like a cheap burger, especially if you're in close and slow...like formation landings.

And watch your fuel.  I didn't give you any extra...

 

Pattern Training vR0.2.miz

[NIGHTHAWK1]

To Raisuli:  Nice training miz.  I think these are great.   Really want to be greater would be to add notes or what ever to say when to drop gears, when to deploy flaps, what speed to be at, etc.

[Raisuli]

4 hours ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

To Raisuli:  Nice training miz.  I think these are great.   Really want to be greater would be to add notes or what ever to say when to drop gears, when to deploy flaps, what speed to be at, etc.

To be a real mission I need to add a bunch of stuff...like actual instructions.  Haven't decided if there's enough need for that yet; if I'm only doing them for myself I already know

<edit> Yeah, okay, got the script roughed out, now I need to take a training mission apart to see how all that works.  I've been flying the carrier pattern all morning and I suck a lot less; remains to be seen how much that will translate to the carrier.  Of course all this is off-topic for the F-16; should do some more work on that as well, but I did forget to turn my F-16 autopilot switches off before doing the chase mission, and that always makes flying interesting...  <edit>

Edited April 6, 2024 by Raisuli

[modsat]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:07 PM, Raisuli said:

To be a real mission I need to add a bunch of stuff...like actual instructions.  Haven't decided if there's enough need for that yet; if I'm only doing them for myself I already know

Raisuli these are great. The F16 stuff is gold - at least to me. I have not setup my HOTAS for the F18 since getting my new setup, but look forward to trying the carrier break. I have already spent several hours in this mission. The gates really help visualize the pattern and imprint the correct sight picture. I love it. Thanks for your effort.

I have no idea how hard it is to setup those gates, so just throwing this out there. One thing I would really appreciate, is if you would make a pattern just like your landing gates, but instead of making a touch and go the pattern just loops in the air (so no approach and departure but just two legs). It could start in the air in the pattern.

[Raisuli]

12 minutes ago, modsat said:

Raisuli these are great. The F16 stuff is gold - at least to me. I have not setup my HOTAS for the F18 since getting my new setup, but look forward to trying the carrier break. I have already spent several hours in this mission. The gates really help visualize the pattern and imprint the correct sight picture. I love it. Thanks for your effort.

I have no idea how hard it is to setup those gates, so just throwing this out there. One thing I would really appreciate, is if you would make a pattern just like your landing gates, but instead of making a touch and go the pattern just loops in the air (so no approach and departure but just two legs). It could start in the air in the pattern.

I was all primed to make these 'real' missions, then I realized how hard ED makes real missions.  I suppose I could just give instructions and let people flounder, but I have to load DCS_BIOS to figure out what the cockpit parameters are?  All these lovely mission editing tools that we can't really use?  Even if you figure one air fame out consistency doesn't exist...and based on anecdotal comments from the poor guys who do this for real the next update breaks something anyway.  Then they wonder why the learning curve content doesn't exist. 

If we had the tools it would already be done.

In any event, if all you want is an oval over the field that's pretty easy.  I was going to tackle an F-16 ILS approach at some point, but I'm also doing operations manuals and then life and some other hobbies get in the way and all that...be prepared for divergent paths.  They're easy once you realize what's going on.

[modsat]

24 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

I was all primed to make these 'real' missions, then I realized how hard ED makes real missions.  I suppose I could just give instructions and let people flounder, but I have to load DCS_BIOS to figure out what the cockpit parameters are?  All these lovely mission editing tools that we can't really use?  Even if you figure one air fame out consistency doesn't exist...and based on anecdotal comments from the poor guys who do this for real the next update breaks something anyway.  Then they wonder why the learning curve content doesn't exist. 

If we had the tools it would already be done.

In any event, if all you want is an oval over the field that's pretty easy.  I was going to tackle an F-16 ILS approach at some point, but I'm also doing operations manuals and then life and some other hobbies get in the way and all that...be prepared for divergent paths.  They're easy once you realize what's going on.

I have not yet looked into the mission editor. I used to make missions and mods for Arma2 and DCS mission editing sounds and looks a lot like the good old Arma days. Great community, lots of creativity and lots of frustrations . I setup one mission myself. Tried to spawn smoke on top of a building, realized that I apparently needed a whole script package to make that easy, and decided to hold back on mission editing until I can actually fly the jet 

All I want is an oval in the sky. But I totally understand if you aint got the energy or time. I have a ton of stuff going on becides flying. You can't be everywhere at once. If you get the time, you get the time. I appreciate your efforts either way.

[RyanR]

1 hour ago, modsat said:

I have not yet looked into the mission editor.

 

 

While I don't know what half of the Mission Editor does, the learning curve isn't too bad to set up simple tasks (AKA stuff to blow up). I've found it to be a really good way to learn the various systems/etc. You can play with the weather and time, and push yourself where you see a need to improve.

I got really frustrated with all the distractions with some of the built-in, or Quick Mission Builder. Mostly because other friendlies would blow up all the baddies before I could even find one. It was really helpful to make my own little practice tasks.

-Ryan