tflash Posted March 13, 2005 Posted March 13, 2005 If I understand the manual right, the Kh-25MP missile will no longer be available on the Su-25, but the Kh-25MPU and Kh-58 will be available on the Su-25T? Will there be an improved simulation of this missile also? How about the promising S-25L laser-guided rocket? Will it be available for the standard Su-25? The Su-25T will have inferior flight performance compared to Su-25 due to less favourable trust-to-weight ratio. I don't know about you guys, but I do like to fly aircraft that have good performance. So I guess in air-to-ground I will stick with the old Su-25 with the new AFM. To bad I will loose the Kh-25MP missile! Maybe I shouldn't "upgrade" after all? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted March 13, 2005 Posted March 13, 2005 Uhm ... what? You get a monster liek the Kh-58 and you don't want to 'upgrade'? You get a pod that lets you choose the target for your ARM isntead of blindly locking onto anything in the way and you don't want to 'upgrade'? You get vikhrs and R-73's and you don't want to 'upgrade'? You get the ability to point the laser at things automatically and you don't want to 'upgrade'? Are you -nuts-? ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Alfa Posted March 13, 2005 Posted March 13, 2005 Tflash, If I understand the manual right, the Kh-25MP missile will no longer be available on the Su-25, but the Kh-25MPU and Kh-58 will be available on the Su-25T? Will there be an improved simulation of this missile also? The Kh-25MP should not have been part of the Su-25 armament to begin with....it is the same deal as with the R-27AE/Su-27 bit. Yes the Kh-25MPU and Kh-58 will be available for the Su-25T and yes the use of anti-radar missiles is simulated more realistically now. The Kh-25MPU is a small and older weapon - the advantage of it is that the Su-25T can carry quite a few of them - the disadvantage is that it is rather short ranged and only effective against certain radar types. The Kh-58 is a huge missile with a good stand-off range and a more modern weapon, which can be targeted against a wider range of radar sources - the disadvantage is that it is quite heavy, which means that the Su-25T can only carry two of them(on most inner pylons). How about the promising S-25L laser-guided rocket? Will it be available for the standard Su-25? Yes the standard Su-25 will be able to deploy the S-25L :) The Su-25T will have inferior flight performance compared to Su-25 due to less favourable trust-to-weight ratio. I don't know about you guys, but I do like to fly aircraft that have good performance. So I guess in air-to-ground I will stick with the old Su-25 with the new AFM. To bad I will loose the Kh-25MP missile! Maybe I shouldn't "upgrade" after all? It is correct that the Su-25T is a little more "lumpy" in its flight characteristics due to less favourable thrust to weight ratio, but there is no comparison what so ever when it comes to ability to engage ground targets.....especially the moving ones. The Shkval system allows targets to be identified, tracked and engaged from much greater distance than is possible via visible ID/manually slewing of laser designator. Additionally the Shkval system can track and auto-lock a moving target, while its associated primary weapon - the Vikhr - can can chase it down. So yes the Su-25T is slightly less manouvrable as compared with the basic Su-25, but in the ground attack role it has less need to be manouvrable ;) You will find it to be very effective :) Cheers, - JJ. JJ
Mechanist Posted March 13, 2005 Posted March 13, 2005 Uhm ... what? You get a monster liek the Kh-58 and you don't want to 'upgrade'? You get a pod that lets you choose the target for your ARM isntead of blindly locking onto anything in the way and you don't want to 'upgrade'? You get vikhrs and R-73's and you don't want to 'upgrade'? You get the ability to point the laser at things automatically and you don't want to 'upgrade'? Are you -nuts-? ;) Yeah these stuffs are great! But think about an accurate hit in your nose section. Well all the stuffs will be disabled. And you can **** all the hi-tech stuffs in your pilons... But in a Su-25 you just turn on the SETKA and everything gonna be fine :wink:. I know the Su-25T have a SETKA too ,but the SETKA can't control the guided missiles witch you most likely put on your Su-25T's pilons. My favourite plane allways will be the Su-25 but i will like the Su-25T too. Most likely i will fly em 50-50%. "Fighters make movies, bombers make history."
GGTharos Posted March 13, 2005 Posted March 13, 2005 Yeah, sure. You wanna fly a Su-25 into protected airspace? you won't even know what hit you, let alone havnig to worry about some 'accurate hit to the nose' ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
tflash Posted March 14, 2005 Author Posted March 14, 2005 Hey, GGTHaros, that of not upgrading was a joke! No, I'm not nuts but always cautious when I upgrade software. I made a LOT of missions involving the Su-25 with KH-25MP. Of course, I will be happy to update them all to use the Su-25T instead, but I fear this plane will also consume more resources of my PC. As some missions are already on the performance limit and somewhat stuttering, I fear I will end up with a rather slow gaming experience. It's my opinion that a patch or an add-on should never remove features from previous versions. There are a lot of very bad features in Excel that MS leaves there because millions USE them. Of course, I'm very, very interested to try out the advanced anti-radar modes. Very, very much so! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Kula66 Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 Of course, I will be happy to update them all to use the Su-25T instead, but I fear this plane will also consume more resources of my PC. As some missions are already on the performance limit and somewhat stuttering, I fear I will end up with a rather slow gaming experience. I'm afraid that flying the new model 25 with all those polygons is already too much for my GPU ... frame rates definately stutter and thats with the reduced terrain in the demo ... but I just love trying to hold the plane steady after dropping a big weapon ... but trying to hit a moving target is quite tricky ... keeping the laser on target AND not roll over!! James
Alfa Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 It's my opinion that a patch or an add-on should never remove features from previous versions. Not even when those are bogus? - JJ. JJ
tflash Posted March 14, 2005 Author Posted March 14, 2005 It's my opinion that a patch or an add-on should never remove features from previous versions. Not even when those are bogus? - JJ. It would be particularly strange if a vendor of software came afterwards telling me that one of the features I used and enjoyed most was bogus. Since the Su-25T is in my opinion not available in large operational numbers and certainly not with a single specification, I wonder what will be dropped from it in the next release of Lockon :wink: But lets not make a fuzz about this somewhat minor point: the important thing is we are eager to fly the new features, no doubt about that! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
VapoR Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 But lets not make a fuzz about this somewhat minor point: A plane carrying a missile that it can't really carry, without any reasonable targetting system to support it you consider minor?
Mechanist Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 Yeah, sure. You wanna fly a Su-25 into protected airspace? you won't even know what hit you, let alone havnig to worry about some 'accurate hit to the nose' ;) I'm not sure about you can see a man with a Stinger or an Igla in a Su-25T too :wink: "Fighters make movies, bombers make history."
D-Scythe Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 I'm not sure about you can see a man with a Stinger or an Igla in a Su-25T too Try hiding behind a bush in your Su-25T ;)
jj_pt Posted March 14, 2005 Posted March 14, 2005 Is this a wink contest? :lol: [sIGPIC]http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/images/userbars/A-10C_UserBar_01.gif[/sIGPIC]
gherring Posted March 15, 2005 Posted March 15, 2005 :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: I win!!!
Alfa Posted March 15, 2005 Posted March 15, 2005 It would be particularly strange if a vendor of software came afterwards telling me that one of the features I used and enjoyed most was bogus. And I am telling you now that it is - do you still think the Kh-25MP should be left on the Su-25 despite this being an unrealistic situation? Or are you saying that ED should stop making simulations if they cannot guarantee that everyting simulated is 100% correct from day one? Since the Su-25T is in my opinion not available in large operational numbers and certainly not with a single specification, I wonder what will be dropped from it in the next release of Lockon :wink: I would really like to know what you mean by "...certainly not with a single specification" ?. But lets not make a fuzz about this somewhat minor point: the important thing is we are eager to fly the new features, no doubt about that! Like VapoR said, the question of whether aircraft A or B should be allowed to deploy weapons they in reality cannot support is not a minor point in connection with a simulation. - JJ. JJ
tflash Posted March 15, 2005 Author Posted March 15, 2005 It would be particularly strange if a vendor of software came afterwards telling me that one of the features I used and enjoyed most was bogus. And I am telling you now that it is - do you still think the Kh-25MP should be left on the Su-25 despite this being an unrealistic situation? Like VapoR said, the question of whether aircraft A or B should be allowed to deploy weapons they in reality cannot support is not a minor point in connection with a simulation. - JJ. OK, I think I understand your position clearly now: - the official version 1.0X distributed by UbiSoft is bogus in an area that is no minor point for a simulation. - the unofficial patch by ED will offer a correct simulation of this important feature. Felicitations! I want to make clear that I for my part do NOT support the first claim. I think the Flanker series and the Lockon series where very valuable simulations from the start. But I understand that for you a very near representation of actual capabilities is what you are looking after in a Sim. I can understand that, but I for my part e.g. find an accurate historic setting of a particular conflict more important. I guess sims come in many tastes; I'll enjoy 1.1 as much as I did 1.02. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
SUBS17 Posted March 16, 2005 Posted March 16, 2005 rofl, Already you're shooting it down and you haven't even flown it yet! I think that the benefits of the Su25T outweigh the Su25. Su25T is a real killer by performance. As for manouverability, it doesn't lose that much and you're still travelling way faster than an A-10. Su25T is going to kick butt online, even the Su39 mods kick butt online. I also think that the game runs smoother on the demo than it ever has in 1.02, but thats my machine. cheers Subs [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC]
tflash Posted March 16, 2005 Author Posted March 16, 2005 rofl, Already you're shooting it down and you haven't even flown it yet! I think that the benefits of the Su25T outweigh the Su25. Su25T is a real killer by performance. As for manouverability, it doesn't lose that much and you're still travelling way faster than an A-10. Su25T is going to kick butt online, even the Su39 mods kick butt online. I also think that the game runs smoother on the demo than it ever has in 1.02, but thats my machine. cheers Subs I can agree on this one. In fact, I didn't intend to start a negative discussion here: you're right: lets first enjoy to fly these thrilling new features before complaining. I'm just a interested to fly the Su-25T as you all are. I always get carried away by realism discussions, but I should keep these for philosophy courses :=) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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