Nose down when braking

[SMH]

32 minutes ago, Art-J said:

Sounds like Il-2GB habit / muscel memory to me . Do your try DCS warbirds after having more previous experience with GB ones? If so, taxiing technique here has always been exactly opposite to GB one. "Their" warbirds have super strong propwash & rudder effect mixed with super weak brakes that need to be stomped on to squeeze anything out of them. "Our" warbirds on the other hand have pretty much non-existent propwash & rudder effect below takeoff speeds (so don't even bother to use them to taxi) but have always had very strong brakes which require smooth and reduced input to avoid nose-overs. Frankly, I don't think that changed at all in 2.9.4, but almost all my flying in DCS is about warbirds, so maybe I'm just more used to them.

@SMH Thanks for the detailed videos, although to be honest, the one with Mustang clearly shows tyre sinking to me. Granted, no proper deformation animation, but it's better than nothing I guess.... Also, In my opinion that skid sound comes from one of the mains locking up. I've yet to experience strictly tailwheel skidding in 2.9.4 if it got unlocked properly.

I'm surprised to see correct wheel stopping and correct one rotating in tight turns in your vid. Have you used TF-51 there? So it's the payware one that has animations reversed I reckon? Hopefully they'll got it sorted in both variants, together with damping issues.

 

That was the TF-51 (I did so so everybody would be able to view my track). I'll try the P-51 and see if it's different and also do some hard landings and see if I can get some tire sink. Do the two variants act the same? Do we really have 2 or 3 different P-51s to test every time we talk about Mustang issues? 

(Just did a quick test and yeah, you're right, the wheel animations are reversed! LOL!)

Edited April 28, 2024 by SMH

[Slippa]

On 4/28/2024 at 4:17 PM, SMH said:

I mean in my own plane, not the horrible rubber banding we get in multiplayer that makes entire planes sink into runways. 

Good point. I’ve been testing on the ME as well as a training server, will have to remember to test on the ME for ‘sensible’ checks. That weirdness is too much some of the time in MP. I’ve been flying in formation and seen mustangs climb vertically while staying horizontal.

On 4/28/2024 at 11:38 AM, Holbeach said:

I spent all Sunday morning forming a bug report with a detailed explaination and none of the text showed up, just a load of pictures.

What a FWOT that was.

A howling 7 deg Norwester with stair rods outside, I might as well start again, in stages this time.

..

Oh, gutting. I’ve been there myself, not so much the rain but the computer. I lost stuff I’d worked on for weeks and had to redo almost everything. Not something to make a habit of. The wonders of computing eh. Who knows, ED may come along and pay you for all the testing yet? 

On 4/28/2024 at 4:46 PM, Art-J said:

Sounds like Il-2GB habit / muscel memory to me .

I can honestly say I’ve only had about an hour or two poking around on IL2. I’ve barely touched MSFS as I can never seem to get my graphics set for it. X-plane I uninstalled before even starting with it as I was, well, ‘busy’.

I got stuck into DCS and learnt to fly the Spit first. Since then, if I wanted to fly I’d fly that and once I could get it back on the ground without banging it regularly I was itching to get in the next one. No time for anything that didn’t fly as well or didn’t run as well on my setup. Before long, there was almost no time for any other software to get a look in, let alone flight sims . Nowadays, I may as well just stamp it all with DCS logos as it’s almost exclusively ‘taken over’. This is what happens I suppose? Before we know it, we’re trapped .

About 98% of my flying is in the old props too and I own all the Fs, a few helis, I’m just an old fart that loves the old birds. It’s a bit like going to a restaurant wanting something on the other table. I can’t mess for too long in anything without a prop as it’s time I could be spending flying a prop . 

I think I’m getting better results with the Pony now but it’s more down to being more patient and barely going near my brakes. I’m being a lot more careful with them now. Getting more used to the bouncy ground handling but it’s still a bit odd.

Mossie and this both want backing off a bit I reckon? Definitely the Mossie’s a WIP to put it mildly.

[Magic Zach]

Fwiw I have enjoyed the new suspension model quite a lot.  Aircraft looks a lot better, and actually feels like it has 5 tons of weight to throw around now.  Granted I haven't payed attention to it before, but now that it's here, I love it.  It has changed how I land though.  It's a bit bouncier but still manageable.
As far as braking, it's definitely not more or less sensitive. Braking power is the same as it's always been.

[Slippa]

14 hours ago, Magic Zach said:

As far as braking, it's definitely not more or less sensitive. Braking power is the same as it's always been.

No matter what adjustments I make using axis tuning or curves I can’t do anything to improve the braking. I’ve learnt to live with it but they are too sensitive and don’t behave as they used to.

Taxi in the Pony, brake as lightly as you can and try turning. It wants to nose over. I watched someone in a MP server hopping the tailwheel as they were trying to turn a few nights back. It isn’t just my Pony, or my curves etc. and there’s nothing wrong with my crosswinds.

The braking changed at the same time as the suspension was updated. I don’t know if they adjusted the brakes (but I think so) or if they react like they do as a result of the suspension change but they aren’t the same as they were before the update. - I remember it clearly as I was flying the Pony and the Mossie exclusively when they changed them. A few of us were. I had more complaints about it, mostly, everyone else was fine with it.

The rest of the props I fly (all but the I-16) are fine and I like the feel of the suspension overall. I can put up with the brakes on the Pony as they are, I just do my best to avoid using them. I’ve never seen anyone hopping their tailwheel trying to turn the real thing. I’ve seen em doing bullseyes, rolling along sensibly and on taxi plenty of times on both hard or grass strips but can’t say what we have seems right.

 

 

[Magic Zach]

5 hours ago, Slippa said:

No matter what adjustments I make using axis tuning or curves I can’t do anything to improve the braking. I’ve learnt to live with it but they are too sensitive and don’t behave as they used to.

Taxi in the Pony, brake as lightly as you can and try turning. It wants to nose over. I watched someone in a MP server hopping the tailwheel as they were trying to turn a few nights back. It isn’t just my Pony, or my curves etc. and there’s nothing wrong with my crosswinds.

The braking changed at the same time as the suspension was updated. I don’t know if they adjusted the brakes (but I think so) or if they react like they do as a result of the suspension change but they aren’t the same as they were before the update. - I remember it clearly as I was flying the Pony and the Mossie exclusively when they changed them. A few of us were. I had more complaints about it, mostly, everyone else was fine with it.

The rest of the props I fly (all but the I-16) are fine and I like the feel of the suspension overall. I can put up with the brakes on the Pony as they are, I just do my best to avoid using them. I’ve never seen anyone hopping their tailwheel trying to turn the real thing. I’ve seen em doing bullseyes, rolling along sensibly and on taxi plenty of times on both hard or grass strips but can’t say what we have seems right.

 

 

While I can't agree on stopping power changing, I do agree that it can "feel" like the stopping power increased.  The front shocks are a lot softer now and will compress under stopping the forward momentum, and the tailwheel strut appears to have a lot more range to it as well, extending out sometimes pretty far all while still contacting the ground.  Overall both ends making the nose tuck a lot more when braking, so visually it does appear like the brakes have a lot more power now.  But if you were to take the pre and post updated suspension Mustangs and from the same co-speed hit them with say 25% brake application on the axis, I feel like the stopping distance would be the same.
But there's only one way to be really sure and tbh I don't feel like reverting to an old version of DCS, especially after I just finally got a 100% new clean install of DCS without any bloat in it 

[kablamoman]

I do feel that the oleos have a bit too much give. Admittedly, though, the feeling isn't based on anything concrete, aside from it being pretty easy to damage the gear (presumably because they can bottom out a little too easily).

If you ever find yourself taxiing, rolling out from a landing, or taking off, and have the gear warning horn suddenly sound -- congratulations, you've busted one of the mains.

[Slippa]

8 hours ago, Magic Zach said:

I don't feel like reverting to an old version of DCS, especially after I just finally got a 100% new clean install of DCS without any bloat in it 

God no, nor do I, it’s fine, it’s fine . 

I can’t comment on the sirens kablamoman speaks of. I’ve never heard any sirens going off in any of my modules, I’m far too careful with all of em and never overheat any, I never speed, I don’t even hear the skidding noise when I land as it’s always so buttery. I’d post a video or a track but I’m lying through my teeth and this would shatter my illusions. Ok, I may have heard the odd crunchy noises from time to time but ooh look a butterfly.. 

[Bowie]

On 4/20/2024 at 4:56 PM, Terry Dactil said:

OK. We had a similar problem with savage brakes on the Mosquito in the early days.

You can fix it with this mod ...

Go to

<Your DCS program location> Mods > aircraft > P-51D > FM > FMOptions.lua

Reduce the value in line 15. (Use Notepad++)

I set it to 3000 and can apply full brakes without nosing over.

 

 

This looks exactly what was here to post a request for, reducing the max breaking gain to a percentage that will be functional w/ differential repeater keys.

Pulled a copy of the folder and file over to the user install, and will mod and see if it works over there.

 

Thank you for this, as WWII fighters are the real pilot stuff, from start-up to shut-down.

 

Bowie

[Slippa]

Just posting here as the brakes are much better since the last update.

No complaints, much more sensible. Yes, the update caused some mayhem elsewhere but our Pony’s all good now so cheers. 

[Bowie]

On 11/1/2024 at 5:25 AM, Slippa said:

Just posting here as the brakes are much better since the last update.

No complaints, much more sensible. Yes, the update caused some mayhem elsewhere but our Pony’s all good now so cheers. 

 

FMOptions.lua/mainWheelBrakeMomentMax = 3500.0

This is down from 8000.0, which was the problem.

A little touchy, especially when light, but manageable, and better than 3000.0 for big swing corrections.

For general runway braking, taxiing, and hardstand pirouettes, 3000.0 is pretty sweet.

 

Bowie