WHOGX5 Posted May 12, 2024 Posted May 12, 2024 Now that we've gotten the INS update for our DCS F-16CM-50 (great update by the way), I think it's high time that we discuss the Digital Terrain System. This is an old system which was implemented back in the M1 tape for the F-16CM-50, and therefore is something which should definitely make an apperance in the DCS F-16CM-50 which models a M4.2+ tape circa 2007. For some reason this system has never been mentioned in the DCS F-16C roadmap, and seeing as it is a system that adds A TONNE of capability to the F-16CM-50, many of which increase survivability and combat effectiveness greatly, I find it quite surprising that it hasn't been mentioned there yet. The DTS was introduced specifically to reduce the number of CFITs (controlled flight into terrain) as this was the single biggest source of loss of life in the F-16 fleet, and in doing this it also had the side effect of enabling multiple other features to be added to the aircraft. These systems are explained in great detail in various publicly available manuals and studies, so it should not be an problem gathering information. A quick explanation of what the DTS is, it consists of a Data Cartridge which can be used to load approximately 480 square nautical miles of terrain and obstacle data into your aircraft. Whenever you're flying "on map" (within the roughly 480 square nautical mile patch of terrain you've loaded into your aircraft), this is then used by the aircraft in multiple different ways, namely: - Terrain Referenced Navigation (TRN) Allows the F-16CM-50 to cross-reference it's radar altitude against the digital terrain database to greatly reduce INS drift (especially when GPS is not available). The usefulness of this system will depend on how featured the terrain you're flying over actually is (not very effective over the ocean or flat terrain like the desert). - DTS Predictive Ground Collision Avoidance System (PGCAS) The PGCAS is an advisory system which will give the pilot pull up warnings when they are about to fly into terrain. Without PGCAS, you can fly into a steep mountain side without any pull up warning, because your radar altimeter simply cannot detect the mountain face before it is too late. With the Digital Terrain System, the aircraft can calculate your flight path in complex terrain or in situations where your radar altimeter is not pointing downward (like when turning in a dogfight, or diving steeply towards the ground while dodging a SAM) and give you a pull up advisory with enough time to spare for the pilot to be able to avoid flying into the terrain. I'll also mention just to be clear that PGCAS is not GCAS, and the aircraft will not automatically avoid the terrain, it will just provide warning cues for the pilot to take action. - Obstacle Warning and Cueing (OW/C) The OW/C allows obstacle data to be loaded into the aircraft. Each obstacle will have a specified location and height, and whenever your flight path nears an obstacle, the pilot will get an advisory on his HUD, informing him that an obstacle is either straight ahead, or left/right of his flight path, in order to assist the pilot not to fly into this obstacle. - Database Terrain Cueing (DBTC) The DBTC aims to fill the role that the old LANTIRN navigation pods did in low altitude flying. DBTC will allow the pilot to select a desired height above the ground that he wants to fly, and the aircraft will provide cues to the pilot to follow to fly at that height based on the terrain data. This will function much like the LANTIRN did, except that it doesn't automatically fly the aircraft, but instead provides cues for the pilot to follow in order to maintain said altitude above the ground. When calculating the desired flight path, the DBTC will take terrain data ahead of the aircraft into account to give the pilot a smooth flight path that won't send him slamming into a hill or a mountain face. This will allow much safer low altitude flying in the DCS F-16C. - Passive Ranging In addition to all the points mentioned above, the Digital Terrain System also improves targeting accuracy. If you use the JHMCS to designate a markpoint for example, the direction you're head is pointing can be cross referenced against the Digital Terrain Database in order to give you a much more accurate designation that takes terrain elevation into account. Really all kinds of SPI designations where the FCR or laser might be unavailable, will be much more accurate. 15 4 -Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities." DCS Wishlist: MC-130E Combat Talon | F/A-18F Lot 26 | HH-60G Pave Hawk | E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound | EA-6A/B Prowler | J-35F2/J Draken | RA-5C Vigilante
IR.Clutch Posted May 12, 2024 Posted May 12, 2024 +100500. ED? 3 i7-11700K 5GHz, 64GB DDR4@3200, ZOTAC RTX4090, iiyama 34 Red Eagle || Quest 3 || Thrustmaster TQS, Tianhang M-FSSB PRO base, VPC Interceptor rudder pedals || Simshaker Jetpad || F-16 cockpit
phyrBlaine Posted May 12, 2024 Posted May 12, 2024 We are 100% in need of it! Both greatly improves quality of implementation of our DCS F-16, and improves it's capabilities! 3
Wing Posted May 13, 2024 Posted May 13, 2024 Great wish list items. Wishful thinking, but we have all been pleasantly surprised by ED before… 2 www.v303rdFighterGroup.com | v303 FG Discord
-Viper- Posted May 14, 2024 Posted May 14, 2024 i hope to implement the 10% of what is mentioned above this will bring the DCS F-16 into a new sales era BUT?!!!! 1
WHOGX5 Posted May 14, 2024 Author Posted May 14, 2024 20 hours ago, Wing said: Great wish list items. Wishful thinking, but we have all been pleasantly surprised by ED before… Well, it shouldn't really be a wishlist item. It's an integral part of the Block 50, and it feels like ED would set a very strange precedent if they were to simply occlude it even though there is more than enough documentation explaining the workings of this system. I realize some systems cannot be implemented because of them being heavily classified, or them being something way beyond what could reasonably be expected to be included in this module, but to have such a major and well documented system as the DTS be omitted would be a weird decision, in my eyes at least. There are already post-DTS functionalities which we see in DCS, which wouldn't really be possible without DTS. Like the ability to create markpoints using the JHMCS for example. If all the aircraft had to go by was it's altitude and the angle your head was pointed in, you could expect several nautical miles of error in most cases unless you're flying over completely flat terrain. It is a nonsensical feature without Passive Ranging, where the angle you point your head in can be cross referenced against know terrain and elevation data to give you a pretty accurate markpoint. Seeing as the DCS F-16C seems to be the testbed for EDs new and improved INS implementation, it would make a great deal of sense to implement Terrain Referenced Navigation and Database Terrain Cueing as well. After all, these systems are not merely used by the F-16C and other aircraft, but by munitions as well. At the moment, for example, the Tomahawk Land Attack MIssile in DCS is quite useless. That's because they will simply fly into the side of a steep hill because it is incapable of seeing the terrain ahead, as all it has to go by in DCS is radar altitude. It works well in completely flat terrain, but any kind of hilly or mountainous terrain will yeet itself straight into all kinds of obstacles. I don't really fly many other DCS modules than the F-16C, because I love the F-16C, but I could imagine that the Slammers on the F/A-18C might have similar issues. Implementing these features which should definitely be a part of the Block and Tape of F-16CM-50 ED says they're developing, would carry over both to other aircraft that ED and third parties are developing, but also to various other weapon systems inside the DCS ecosystem. A lot of the work is already done, seeing as DCS is literally a digital terrain database. The main hurdle would be to implement Database Terrain Cueing, which would basically be a terrain following radar, without the autopilot part. After that is implemented, all the other remaining features mentioned in my post above wouldn't take a lot of work at all to implement. 6 1 -Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities." DCS Wishlist: MC-130E Combat Talon | F/A-18F Lot 26 | HH-60G Pave Hawk | E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound | EA-6A/B Prowler | J-35F2/J Draken | RA-5C Vigilante
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted May 14, 2024 ED Team Posted May 14, 2024 @WHOGX5 Of course it's a wish list item, it's a new feature that we have never announced or even planned. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
darkman222 Posted May 16, 2024 Posted May 16, 2024 (edited) Wishlist items for me: Get the current F16 in a good shape again considering the buggy already existing systems, before adding any new systems to it. Sorry for the hijack, just to put such wishes in the right perspective. Edited May 16, 2024 by darkman222 2
WHOGX5 Posted May 18, 2024 Author Posted May 18, 2024 On 5/16/2024 at 1:41 PM, darkman222 said: Wishlist items for me: Get the current F16 in a good shape again considering the buggy already existing systems, before adding any new systems to it. Sorry for the hijack, just to put such wishes in the right perspective. I agree with your sentiment, but I don't see these two things as mutually exclusive. I think we can want a well functioning, fairly bugless DCS F-16C, while at the same time wanting it to to be accurately modeled for the Block and point in time ED has chosen to model this product after. I agree though that at this moment, bugfixes should be the main priority as there is not only an abundance of them, but more bugs gets introduced with every patch that is released. 3 -Col. Russ Everts opinion on surface-to-air missiles: "It makes you feel a little better if it's coming for one of your buddies. However, if it's coming for you, it doesn't make you feel too good, but it does rearrange your priorities." DCS Wishlist: MC-130E Combat Talon | F/A-18F Lot 26 | HH-60G Pave Hawk | E-2 Hawkeye/C-2 Greyhound | EA-6A/B Prowler | J-35F2/J Draken | RA-5C Vigilante
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