NATO Carrier update

[Beldin]

Having done many updates for the aircraft carrier flight decks I thought I'd share my take off luas. These are all still a work in progress but there should be no planes taxing through anything. Landing needs more work than take off. It some cases it might be the same as the original mod. I will update these when I can. I decided to start with the NATO STOVL carriers simply because there are really only 2 planes to worry about, the AV-8B and the VSN-F-35 mod. This is only a lua file that updates the spawn points. You will need the original mod. To install back up your mod and  then either replace the "RunwayAndRoutes" lua with the new one or replace the runway data in the ship file. (some mods are setup this way) Ships include:

L-61 by desdemicabina-simulation   (4 runway 8 ramp)

Príncipe de Asturias by Eric et Patrick (4 runway 8 ramp)

HermesR12 by Joey45 (4 runway 20 ramp)

HMS QE Class by Joey45 (4 runway 20 ramp)

HMS Invincible by RAZBAM  (4 runway 8 ramp) Note: may break IC

USS Forrestal by HeartBlur (20 ramp) Note: may break IC

More ships to follow soon.

 

NATO Carrier Update V2.zip

Edited May 16, 2024 by Beldin

[Stratos]

Amazing! 

[seabat]

Beldin,

Great mods as usual.  Really helped out with the Bon Homme Richards as well.

Keep it up and you are eventually going to have to change your name from Beldin to Air Boss!

seabat

[andyc]

@joey45 is the QE carrier still available for download ? I cna't find a link for it. I assume this isn't the same one t-pap released ? 

[Esac_mirmidon]

This allows for example to have 12 individual and simultaneous cold spawn points for MP human clients?

Or is 4 hot on ramp OR 8 cold ?

[joey45]

3 hours ago, andyc said:

@joey45 is the QE carrier still available for download ? I cna't find a link for it. I assume this isn't the same one t-pap released ? 

Unless I got drunk and deleted it...

 

EDIT: Queen Liz carrier 1.1.8a (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

Edited May 13, 2024 by joey45

[Beldin]

2 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

This allows for example to have 12 individual and simultaneous cold spawn points for MP human clients?

Or is 4 hot on ramp OR 8 cold ?

These runway luas have not been test for MP and are meant for single player AI.  Each carrier has the 4 "runway" spawn points and between 8-20 more cold/hot ramp start spawn points.

The ability of a carrier to support player aircraft depends on more than just the runway script. So some may work for MP and some may not.

 

[andyc]

1 hour ago, joey45 said:

Unless I got drunk and deleted it...

 

EDIT: Queen Liz carrier 1.1.8a (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

 

@beldin the file name for qe carrier is that supposed to exactly match the filenames in the mod ? as it looks nothing like @joey45 file name and is almost identical to t-pap's ?

@joey45 I note you liveries folder seems to be outside of the path of the model itself ? therefore does liveries go in saved/games/dcs/ or do i simply put in in mods/tech/hms qe r08 stolv ?

joey45 called his HMSQER98stovlTestRunwaysAndRoutes.lua  t-pap called his  - HMS_QERunwaysAndRoutes.lua which matches your name apart from the HMS bit. Does it matter would it work with both mods ??

 

Would your invincible one work with t-pap illustrious / invincible mods ? note illustrious hasn't got the sea dart so i guess it means it would be missing a parking spot or two ?

2 minutes ago, andyc said:

@beldin the file name for qe carrier is that supposed to exactly match the filenames in the mod ? as it looks nothing like @joey45 file name and is almost identical to t-pap's ?

@joey45 I note you liveries folder seems to be outside of the path of the model itself ? therefore does liveries go in saved/games/dcs/ or do i simply put in in mods/tech/hms qe r08 stolv ?

joey45 called his HMSQER98stovlTestRunwaysAndRoutes.lua  t-pap called his  - HMS_QERunwaysAndRoutes.lua which matches your name apart from the HMS bit. Does it matter would it work with both mods ??

 

Would your invincible one work with t-pap illustrious / invincible mods ? note illustrious hasn't got the sea dart so i guess it means it would be missing a parking spot or two ?

I'm gonna try it on both mods re the runways @Beldin

[Beldin]

4 minutes ago, andyc said:

@beldin the file name for qe carrier is that supposed to exactly match the filenames in the mod ? as it looks nothing like @joey45 file name and is almost identical to t-pap's

The name of the RunwayAndRoutes lua needs to match the name of the one found in the " dofile(current_mod_path..'/scripts/QEClassRunwaysAndRoutes.lua') " of the ship's lua file.

You can either change the name of the file to match the ship, or change the name in the "dofile" line of the ship lua.

Sorry for the confusion and I will try to included a more detailed install read me with the next update.

I've had most of these MODs for a long time and most of my Mods are, ummm heavily modded. This is to update issues the developer did not have time for or just simple things like changing the ship name so it shows in the ME list and map the way I like

15 minutes ago, andyc said:

I note you liveries folder seems to be outside of the path of the model itself ? therefore does liveries go in saved/games/dcs/ or do i simply put in in mods/tech/hms qe r08 stolv ?

I think the liveries for the Joey's QE go in the bazar folder in your saved game folder. You may have to create this folder.

 

17 minutes ago, andyc said:

Would your invincible one work with t-pap illustrious / invincible mods ? note illustrious hasn't got the sea dart so i guess it means it would be missing a parking spot or two ?

Maybe, You can rename my file to match the Illustrious ship lua or copy the "GT.TaxiForTORoutes" data/position from mine to the orig. I will try and get to that one in the next update. But that's one of the few carriers I never tried. T-pap stopped development on those ships when the SA map/units came out so I never spent much time with them.

   

[andyc]

19 minutes ago, andyc said:

@beldin the file name for qe carrier is that supposed to exactly match the filenames in the mod ? as it looks nothing like @joey45 file name and is almost identical to t-pap's ?

@joey45 I note you liveries folder seems to be outside of the path of the model itself ? therefore does liveries go in saved/games/dcs/ or do i simply put in in mods/tech/hms qe r08 stolv ?

joey45 called his HMSQER98stovlTestRunwaysAndRoutes.lua  t-pap called his  - HMS_QERunwaysAndRoutes.lua which matches your name apart from the HMS bit. Does it matter would it work with both mods ??

 

Would your invincible one work with t-pap illustrious / invincible mods ? note illustrious hasn't got the sea dart so i guess it means it would be missing a parking spot or two ?

I'm gonna try it on both mods re the runways @Beldin

quick update - the invincible update doesn't appear to work with t-pap's invincible - selecting slot 1/2/3/4 and putting all aircraft down - they all spawn on spot 1. Works fine with the invincible from assets pack. I did spot you have one aircraft positions with one wing in the superstructure - see pic.

[Beldin]

35 minutes ago, andyc said:

I did spot you have one aircraft positions with one wing in the superstructure - see pic.

That's strange. Those spots looks a bit different than the ones in the pic I posted That's an easy fix but let me take a look in game and get a better pic of Invincible

Ok, I think you are using my Invincible runway made for the Razbam/SA Invincible (included in game) for T-pap's Invincible mod. That's why there is a plane with it's wing in the deck. My Invincible file should be installed in the main DCS install folder,(coremods, tech, SA mod assets)  not your saved game folder.

But the fact that's it's close is good news for when I get around to those ships. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2024 by Beldin

[andyc]

53 minutes ago, Beldin said:

That's strange. Those spots looks a bit different than the ones in the pic I posted That's an easy fix but let me take a look in game and get a better pic of Invincible

Ok, I think you are using my Invincible runway made for the Razbam/SA Invincible (included in game) for T-pap's Invincible mod. That's why there is a plane with it's wing in the deck. My Invincible file should be installed in the main DCS install folder,(coremods, tech, SA mod assets)  not your saved game folder.

But the fact that's it's close is good news for when I get around to those ships. 

 

 

 

let me double check incase i've got the sa invincible confused with t-paps lol - i did put the runway you made in the dcs install folder...

[andyc]

5 minutes ago, andyc said:

let me double check incase i've got the sa invincible confused with t-paps lol - i did put the runway you made in the dcs install folder...

no not going mad - the razbom is hms invincible r05 in the menu and t-pap is just hms-invincible.  t

ok - so looks like t-paps invincible model was actually being used even with the sa assets one - having moved t-paps out of the way - the model looks visibly different.

So its no hitting the super structure but it is parked where the life raft canisters are - and wheels slightly off the deck (being a bit picky here) but thought let you know, guess its where deck curves slightly - see screenshots...

 

[Esac_mirmidon]

3 hours ago, Beldin said:

These runway luas have not been test for MP and are meant for single player AI.  Each carrier has the 4 "runway" spawn points and between 8-20 more cold/hot ramp start spawn points.

The ability of a carrier to support player aircraft depends on more than just the runway script. So some may work for MP and some may not.

 

Thanks for your reply, i will try on MP with Cients.

[Beldin]

4 hours ago, andyc said:

So its no hitting the super structure but it is parked where the life raft canisters are - and wheels slightly off the deck (being a bit picky here) but thought let you know, guess its where deck curves slightly - see screenshots...

I thought something strange was going on, lol. I can adjust the planes a bit to take care off the lift raft and wheel issues.

[andyc]

@Beldin just trying out the vsn f35b mod - and set the aircraft to launch - all good, they then return to ship and do a rolling vertical landing (I've not set any waypoints at all), however they run out of deck - go through the ski ramp and drop off the end of the ship. Not sure if thats related to your runways mod ?? ie landing point to far along deck ? they touch down on the dark grey patch on the ship. Do you know if its possible to change behaviour to prefer vertical landing - sure i saw that somewhere... something like prefer vertical landing...

couple screen shots...

 

 

 

[Beldin]

Just like in real life you have to keep the weight of the aircraft in mind when landing on a carrier. 
The easiest way to test this is to lower the internal fuel load and find a landing weight that works. Note, having the ai land STVOL planes in DCS during missions is complicated because below a certain weight you get a vertical landing and above a rolling landing. Planes returning from a mission and trying both types of landing does not work well for taxi/parking 

[Beldin]

2 hours ago, andyc said:

Do you know if its possible to change behaviour to prefer vertical landing

As far as I can tell planes in DCS determine take off and landing mode by aircraft weight. Above a certain weight you get short take off and landing while below you get vertical.

I've made adjustments to my F-35B so that when fitting with external tanks it's heavy enough for short take off and without tanks it will do vertical. This depends on the weapons load mind you. Like I mentioned in the pervious post this makes landing AI aircraft in a mission very difficult because you do not really know what weight they will be when the return to the carrier. If they fired all weapons and used most of the fuel you'll get a vertical landing. BUT you'll have 1 or 2 planes that DID NOT release weapons and because of their weight they will try to do a short rolling landing. Which will not go well if other planes have been landing vertically. 

SO... to sum it up using STOVL and carriers in a mission requires some careful planning in ME. 

AND you will need to experiment with the AV-8B and F-35B mod to find out what weight they switch modes at. The best way to do that is vary the internal fuel load (no weapons) until you find the weight. It should be around 20, 000 lbs for the AV-8B and around 40, 000 for the F-35B (depending on the mod) 

[andyc]

41 minutes ago, Beldin said:

As far as I can tell planes in DCS determine take off and landing mode by aircraft weight. Above a certain weight you get short take off and landing while below you get vertical.

I've made adjustments to my F-35B so that when fitting with external tanks it's heavy enough for short take off and without tanks it will do vertical. This depends on the weapons load mind you. Like I mentioned in the pervious post this makes landing AI aircraft in a mission very difficult because you do not really know what weight they will be when the return to the carrier. If they fired all weapons and used most of the fuel you'll get a vertical landing. BUT you'll have 1 or 2 planes that DID NOT release weapons and because of their weight they will try to do a short rolling landing. Which will not go well if other planes have been landing vertically. 

SO... to sum it up using STOVL and carriers in a mission requires some careful planning in ME. 

AND you will need to experiment with the AV-8B and F-35B mod to find out what weight they switch modes at. The best way to do that is vary the internal fuel load (no weapons) until you find the weight. It should be around 20, 000 lbs for the AV-8B and around 40, 000 for the F-35B (depending on the mod) 

interesting.  I was playing with the av-8b on the carrier as well. Now the 1st 8 planes did a rolling landing, then number 9 decided to land right infront of the ramp. and then the remaining 8 or so also then did veritcal landings - all where identical interms of no weapons and fuel load - now of course number 9 and the rest had been flying around a bit longer waiting for the 1st 8 planes to land - although of course they was also waiting to take off... so you would thought fuel usage would been similar. I assumed that after number 9 blocked the ramp the rest decided they had to land vertically but then maybe not i've seen ai planes land ontop of each other... 

I am sure i saw somewhere in the me the ability to say prefer vertical landing... i will have to have another look... 

will have a play... however does your runnway mod determine the landing point for aircraft ? ie can it be moved back further aft to give em time to land slow down before ramp and return to parking spot ?

[Beldin]

13 minutes ago, andyc said:

however does your runnway mod determine the landing point for aircraft ? ie can it be moved back further aft to give em time to land slow down before ramp and return to parking spot ?

Yes an No. There is a "landing spot" but with the STOVL aircraft it all depends on landing weight/mode. In vertical mode the AI seems to use the helicopter spots and picks whatever the heck it wants. But moving the "landing spot is not the answer. If you are rolling into the ski ramp on landing your returning planes are to heavy. Again this is a limitation that carrier planes face in real life. Now because the RN does not like to waste what little money they have they tend to try and bring back unused weapons. You should be able to land with a "normal weapons load" and about 50% fuel just fine. But It's been awhile since I did landing tests. But think about it, planes do not normally return with full fuel tanks.

If you do find a way to set take off mode/ landing mode please let me know. BUT again weight has to come into play No matter what mode you select, if there is even an option, you are not going to get an AV-8B or F-35B to do a vertical take off at max weight. 

 

[andyc]

27 minutes ago, Beldin said:

Yes an No. There is a "landing spot" but with the STOVL aircraft it all depends on landing weight/mode. In vertical mode the AI seems to use the helicopter spots and picks whatever the heck it wants. But moving the "landing spot is not the answer. If you are rolling into the ski ramp on landing your returning planes are to heavy. Again this is a limitation that carrier planes face in real life. Now because the RN does not like to waste what little money they have they tend to try and bring back unused weapons. You should be able to land with a "normal weapons load" and about 50% fuel just fine. But It's been awhile since I did landing tests. But think about it, planes do not normally return with full fuel tanks.

If you do find a way to set take off mode/ landing mode please let me know. BUT again weight has to come into play No matter what mode you select, if there is even an option, you are not going to get an AV-8B or F-35B to do a vertical take off at max weight. 

 

so just been doing some testing  - a clean f35b ie no weapons, will take off using the ramp, do 1 circuit and land vertically with 70% fuel. If I go to 71% it lands using rolling landing and goes straight off the end of the ship as per pics i sent earlier. So at this point there's nothing else i can adjust to stop that happening - only thing i can see is to move the landing spot rearward...

[Beldin]

2 minutes ago, andyc said:

so just been doing some testing  - a clean f35b ie no weapons, will take off using the ramp, do 1 circuit and land vertically with 70% fuel. If I go to 71% it lands using rolling landing and goes straight off the end of the ship as per pics i sent earlier. So at this point there's nothing else i can adjust to stop that happening - only thing i can see is to move the landing spot rearward

I'll send you my F-35B lua later. BUT 70% fuel is still a LOT of fuel . Lower it to 30%-40% and try that. Unless they hit a tanker on the way back planes returning from a mission normally do not have a 70% fuel load. NOTE: you can adjust internal fuel load in the ME loadout screen.

Also I would test with the AV-8B and the Tarawa/Invincible until you get feel for how the STVOL aircraft work. Then try the AV-8B with the QE2. Although this is not "real world" testing  a "mod" with "mod" is always a little tricky. I thought that every STVOL carrier ship (mod or not) was broken until I figured out the weight issue.

Also check how the F-35B works on the "Stock" STOVL carriers.

I'll run some test when get home tonight and double check what I changed in my VSN F-35B mod. It was not much but I do think I played around with the weights a bit to make it work like it should.  

[andyc]

15 minutes ago, Beldin said:

I'll send you my F-35B lua later. BUT 70% fuel is still a LOT of fuel . Lower it to 30%-40% and try that. Unless they hit a tanker on the way back planes returning from a mission normally do not have a 70% fuel load. NOTE: you can adjust internal fuel load in the ME loadout screen.

Also I would test with the AV-8B and the Tarawa/Invincible until you get feel for how the STVOL aircraft work. Then try the AV-8B with the QE2. Although this is not "real world" testing  a "mod" with "mod" is always a little tricky. I thought that every STVOL carrier ship (mod or not) was broken until I figured out the weight issue.

Also check how the F-35B works on the "Stock" STOVL carriers.

I'll run some test when get home tonight and double check what I changed in my VSN F-35B mod. It was not much but I do think I played around with the weights a bit to make it work like it should.  

hmmm so you saying that the fuel load affects stopping distance ? which does make some sense, but the landing spot is almost half way down the ship (ignoring the ramp section) which also seems wrong to me ? need to see if there's any videos of where they land in real world.  the problem is if i go lower than 70% it does a vertical take off and i want it using the ramp...

[Beldin]

40 minutes ago, andyc said:

hmmm so you saying that the fuel load affects stopping distance ?

I'm not saying that, physics is. . Weight affects EVERYTHING on a plane and DCS models much of that  Have you tested with the AV-8B yet?????  It's quite possible the VSN-F35 mod has never been able to land correctly on any of the STVOL carriers. I don't recall how the original lua was configured. Like I said I will send you my F-35B lua later after I test it and make sure it works as I recall. But if you want to keep messing with the F-35B try this, load fuel at 50-60% percent, fit a heavy weapons load to force short take off and give the plane some targets so it fires ALL weapons then see what happens when it returns to ship.

I don't recall thinking I had to move the landing point forward, and that's not  as simple as it sounds, sometime it is, sometimes it's not and can affect other things. 

Good luck

[bbtbmb]

bud are you going to do C550 Cavour too?