not a bug Bug or WLI? After any AG attack with a powered up TGP, I must enable TGP and TMS down to get STPs in the Nav Mode

[Nedum]

 

Every time I run an AG Attack with a powered up but not selected TGP, I have to select the TGP after the AG Attack and have to reset the TGP (TMS down) to get the STPs back in the Nav Mode. Without the reset, I get no STPs in the Nav mode after an AG attack was done with a linked but never selected TGP (CCIP Bombing, Quick Action, Caucasus, Free Flight).
 

Master Arm = on

AG = on

Weapons = on

TGP = power on but not selected (never on one of the MFDs)

CCIP Attack

AG = off

Nav Mode = no Nav STPs

 

Fix:

AG = on

TGP = selected

TMS = down (reset)

AG = off

Nav Mode = STPs are back

 

This is required every time. No track required. Do an AG attack with a powered up TGP and you will see this feature.

I know this feature was introduced with one of the TGP updates. It's been in the game for a long time, but it teases me every time I do a CCIP bombing with a power up but never selected TGP. And yes, it happens every single time with every AG weapon as long as a powered up TGP is on board.

Now I want to know if this behavior "correct as is" or do I have to open a bug report?

 

No mods. Slow fix, done for the 1000 and 1 time.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2024 by Nedum

[Furiz]

Hey,

every time you move a sensor cursor, TGP in this case the SPI(Sensor Point of Interest) moves, so every other sensor is looking at the SPI too. This creates offset from STPT so if you don't reset the offset with Cursor Zero (TMS AFT on TGP while TGP is in INR mode) and Nav mode is selected STPT will still have that offset, STPT will be there but on a offset location.

As far as I know it is not a bug.

Posting a short track so we see what you did would help us help you

 

[Nedum]

Hi and thank you. It's ok, I trust you.

[RyanR]

I think this is correct behavior per one of the manuals. It'll correct a navigational offset.

I noticed the sensor "mark" on the HSD is offset from the steerpoint until you Cursor Zero, at which point, the sensors will snap back to the steerpoint.

Question I've had: is there a "master" way to clear the offsets/SPI's from NAV master mode without having to pop into A-G mode to CZ a sensor? Just to clear out all of the confusion one puts into the system during a flight.

-Ryan

[Nedum]

@RyanR Yes, that would be nice. I can't remember it clearly, but wasn't there a way to reset/CZ the TGP if the HUD is SOI?

Edit: Found this

I have to test it. CZ should be available with the FCR MFD.

Edited May 17, 2024 by Nedum

[RyanR]

36 minutes ago, Nedum said:

@RyanR Yes, that would be nice. I can't remember it clearly, but wasn't there a way to reset/CZ the TGP if the HUD is SOI?

Edit: Found this

I have to test it. CZ should be available with the FCR MFD.

 

 

Yup! But you have to be in GM/GMT to get the CZ.

So if you CZ one sensor, all the sensors are "zeroed" out?

-Ryan

[Raptor9]

Cursor Zero is a function of the navigation system, not the sensors. When you apply a slew to the navigation cursor, it applies a delta to all steerpoints at once to account for INS drift (this is inherited from pre-GPS era, see the image in this comment here). But since all sensors in the F-16 point to a single SPI, and the SPI is coincident with the selected steerpoint when in any pre-planned weapon delivery sub-modes in A-G or NAV master modes, pressing Cursor Zero (CZ) will cause all sensors to return to the actual steerpoint location because that is where the SPI has been moved to.

Essentially, think of the process in the inverse, where the Navigation cursor is driving SPI, which drives the sensors. Not the other way around.
Cursor Zero -> zeroes Navigation cursor -> SPI returns to original steerpoint -> sensors move to remain slaved to SPI

When a sensor like the FCR or TGP enters a track mode while in a pre-planned A-G sub-mode, then the sensor is applying cursor slews to the Navigation cursor to maintain track on the sensor's target; which is why only one sensor can be in a track mode at a given time, otherwise there would be a conflict over which sensor is driving the cursor slews and the singular SPI location

[TAIPAN_]

6 hours ago, RyanR said:

 

Yup! But you have to be in GM/GMT to get the CZ.

 

In the current DCS version you can also get CZ on the HSD:

null

[RyanR]

6 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Cursor Zero is a function of the navigation system, not the sensors. When you apply a slew to the navigation cursor, it applies a delta to all steerpoints at once to account for INS drift (this is inherited from pre-GPS era, see the image in this comment here). But since all sensors in the F-16 point to a single SPI, and the SPI is coincident with the selected steerpoint when in any pre-planned weapon delivery sub-modes in A-G or NAV master modes, pressing Cursor Zero (CZ) will cause all sensors to return to the actual steerpoint location because that is where the SPI has been moved to.

Essentially, think of the process in the inverse, where the Navigation cursor is driving SPI, which drives the sensors. Not the other way around.
Cursor Zero -> zeroes Navigation cursor -> SPI returns to original steerpoint -> sensors move to remain slaved to SPI

When a sensor like the FCR or TGP enters a track mode while in a pre-planned A-G sub-mode, then the sensor is applying cursor slews to the Navigation cursor to maintain track on the sensor's target; which is why only one sensor can be in a track mode at a given time, otherwise there would be a conflict over which sensor is driving the cursor slews and the singular SPI location

 

Thanks for the explanation.

That image is the one I had in my head. The whole system is fascinating in how it works in concert.

-Ryan