Front Window very dark in VR

[RubberDogSh1tOutOfHKG]

Front Window very dark in VR.
It's almost impossible to see anything in front unless its a very bright sunny day.
Is this a bug or a feature?
I see there is already a mod for it on the downloads section

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Do you perhaps have a screenshot so we can have a look?
I don't have any issues with it myself, and I fly exclusively in VR.

Things you can do to improve brightness is to set the DCS Gamma to 2.2 (this is the "correct" value so the colours will display as intended), and to have Global Cockpit Illumination enabled (this has very little if any performance impact, and increases visual fidelity).

[zildac]

This mod may also help, however note that it also removes the dark tint from the helmet visor, but it doesn't need to be installed as a livery as per the mod you reference.

 

 

[t-stoff]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:30 PM, RubberDogSh1tOutOfHKG said:

Front Window very dark in VR.
It's almost impossible to see anything in front unless its a very bright sunny day.
Is this a bug or a feature?
I see there is already a mod for it on the downloads section

wow. I think I found someone with the same problem as me. In the first few days I only flew during the day, but in nevada sometimes at dusk the front windshield/"hud" would get so dark like it was tinted you couldnt see a thing. But in the Marianas quick mission (ILS approach) its virtual impossible to see anything. If I take my VR out and look at the screen is clear as it should.

[RubberDogSh1tOutOfHKG]

On 6/6/2024 at 6:18 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Do you perhaps have a screenshot so we can have a look?
I don't have any issues with it myself, and I fly exclusively in VR.

Things you can do to improve brightness is to set the DCS Gamma to 2.2 (this is the "correct" value so the colours will display as intended), and to have Global Cockpit Illumination enabled (this has very little if any performance impact, and increases visual fidelity).

Well, the screenshot would be of the 2d Monitor. So no use.
My gamma is set to almost 3 to be honest. Never needed to adjust it in other modules. And Global Illumination is on.

On 6/6/2024 at 7:04 PM, zildac said:

This mod may also help, however note that it also removes the dark tint from the helmet visor, but it doesn't need to be installed as a livery as per the mod you reference.

 

 

Ill have a look, thank you

[t-stoff]

I've tried to get a pic with my phone but its kinda hard.
But its easy to "imagine". Mariana Quick Mission DME Arc with the F-4. Everything is gray (due to bad weather), the front windwshield/"HUD" is black/tinted and you can only see the gunsight. Now, if you get above clouds you can get some contrast and contours but it is still much darker than the rest of the glassed parts of the cockpit/canopy.
When you're on final you cant see the runway lights. This with 2.2 gamma.

Edited June 10, 2024 by t-stoff

[=475FG= Dawger]

I have also noticed significant darkness in the combiner glass/front window. Enough to make a bogey disappear when transitioning from other panes to the darker ones. 
 

PITA 

PS. I fly in VR

Edited June 10, 2024 by =475FG= Dawger

[average_pilot]

It's a thick armored glass.

[Zabuzard]

Further, the Phantom has two glass layers and one of them has extra sunblocking coating on it.
The issue existed IRL as well and they just looked around the glass if needed by moving their head slightly. Obviously not an option for everyone, especially outside VR...

Its unfortunatelly really tricky to configure the glass to look proper in all lighting situations in DCS. Multiple weeks have been sunken just into that Thanks though, we will look into it.

Edited June 11, 2024 by Zabuzard

[t-stoff]

3 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Further, the Phantom has two glass layers and one of them has extra sunblocking coating on it.
The issue existed IRL as well and they just looked around the glass if needed by moving their head slightly. Obviously not an option for everyone, especially outside VR...

Its unfortunatelly really tricky to configure the glass to look proper in all lighting situations in DCS. Multiple weeks have been sunken just into that Thanks though, we will look into it.

 

But its a lot more "clear" in flat screen, right? Or at least it seems (I have my monitor right by my sim/VR).
I'm glad you guys are working on that! thanks!:)

Edited June 11, 2024 by t-stoff

[RubberDogSh1tOutOfHKG]

Glad to see your response Zabuzard!

Sometimes its hard to know wether its a Feature or a Bug

[=475FG= Dawger]

6 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Further, the Phantom has two glass layers and one of them has extra sunblocking coating on it.
The issue existed IRL as well and they just looked around the glass if needed by moving their head slightly. Obviously not an option for everyone, especially outside VR...

Its unfortunatelly really tricky to configure the glass to look proper in all lighting situations in DCS. Multiple weeks have been sunken just into that Thanks though, we will look into it.

 

One of the big issues with video simulation is that the human eye behaves differently than a camera.

Canopy reflections are an easy example. In the real world canopy reflections are there but your eyes focus on the target and your brain essentially erases the reflections from your perception unless you consciously choose to see the reflections(unless they are really bad, which happens in low light or at night).

The same is not possible with VR presentation. While it "seems" 3D, it isn't and everything is in the same plane and things like canopy reflections are incredibly overdone.

They look like a photograph because that is essentially what you are viewing in VR, a flat image made to seem 3D, but they aren't what you would see in real life.

I suspect glass tinting is suffering from a related issue. An aircraft a few miles away viewed through tinted glass isn't going to become invisible but rendered in VR, the tinted glass is close enough color wise to make it invisible. To make it worse is DCS does not properly light aircraft, presenting colors when aircraft are backlit and would be seen as black to the human eye, which makes it all the more likely they will become invisible against dark blue sky or through tinted glass.

So while the window tint in the F-4E might be accurate it does not make it realistic from the viewpoint of visibility.

 

[pastranario3]

I could be wrong, somewhere I read that it had double glass and by unscrewing some butterflies you could remove one of them and the vision would be clearer. It had double glass to protect the scope's sensors from the sun. If this were the case, the possibility of removing one of the glasses could be implemented and it would be clearer.

hace 8 horas, Zabuzard dijo:

Further, the Phantom has two glass layers and one of them has extra sunblocking coating on it.
The issue existed IRL as well and they just looked around the glass if needed by moving their head slightly. Obviously not an option for everyone, especially outside VR...

Its unfortunatelly really tricky to configure the glass to look proper in all lighting situations in DCS. Multiple weeks have been sunken just into that Thanks though, we will look into it.

 

 

[Zabuzard]

The main issue here on the technical side is that you can't just do "if this or that situation, change the tint of the glass".

You configure the material and then the DCS engine renders it. If you try to make it look better in dark situations it will look ridiculous in light situations and vice versa. Sometimes it will be completely invisible, sometimes full white.

We have spend weeks tuning this glass and will probably have to spend even more on it.

[Kageseigi]

On 6/6/2024 at 1:04 PM, zildac said:

This mod may also help, however note that it also removes the dark tint from the helmet visor, but it doesn't need to be installed as a livery as per the mod you reference.

 

 

Very interesting, thank you! Do you happen to know if that will pass IC these days? Or if there's a way to apply it to each individual module in the Saved Games directory so it will pass IC?

8 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

One of the big issues with video simulation is that the human eye behaves differently than a camera.

I've found that my eyes don't seem to detect movement on a screen as they do in real life. It makes spotting absolutely miserable! Alas, why am I drawn to early Cold War? 

[WinOrLose]

Slightly related is the brightness of the sight, even when turned down to the lowest setting the glare combined with the glass makes it near impossible to see anything. 

[USA_Recon]

On 6/11/2024 at 4:24 AM, Zabuzard said:

Further, the Phantom has two glass layers and one of them has extra sunblocking coating on it.
The issue existed IRL as well and they just looked around the glass if needed by moving their head slightly. Obviously not an option for everyone, especially outside VR...

Its unfortunatelly really tricky to configure the glass to look proper in all lighting situations in DCS. Multiple weeks have been sunken just into that Thanks though, we will look into it.

Lighting and visuals varies from user to user , monitor vs vr etc.

This is where you stop trying to make the perfect setup for everyone and instead provide some individual settings

On 6/6/2024 at 12:18 PM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Do you perhaps have a screenshot so we can have a look?
I don't have any issues with it myself, and I fly exclusively in VR.

Things you can do to improve brightness is to set the DCS Gamma to 2.2 (this is the "correct" value so the colours will display as intended), and to have Global Cockpit Illumination enabled (this has very little if any performance impact, and increases visual fidelity).

2.2 ???
that completely washes out the outside world .

i normally use 1.8, but for F-4 have to use 2, which I really find too bright for outside the cockpit.

inside the cockpit is just too dark, plain and simple 

[Zabuzard]

2.2 ???
that completely washes out the outside world .
i normally use 1.8, but for F-4 have to use 2, which I really find too bright for outside the cockpit.
inside the cockpit is just too dark, plain and simple 

It is less about it looking "not perfect" but straight out bugged.
For example if you make it less dark in some conditions the DCS engine will literally not render the glass at all anymore and it becomes completely see-through.

Its not easy to tweak it properly. But it will be done eventually, as gas been stated earlier. Cheers

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

5 hours ago, USA_Recon said:

too bright for outside the cockpit

Indeed, which is why helmet visors are so important  

 

*hint*