Adjustable Mirrors?

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Are there any plans to make the pilot's mirrors adjustable? (Maybe they already are but I haven't seen how). I found this statement by RL Phantom pilots regarding re-fueling:

In the F-4, the canopy bow was right in your line of sight for looking at the tanker and gauging your reference points. I’d run my seat up higher than normal to be able to see over the bow just prior to the AAR (air to air refueling).

I’d move into pre-contact position about 50 feet below the tanker, matching the tankers speed and heading, then once stabilized and cleared into contact either via the radio if in peacetime or via visual signals if working under EMCON (emission conditions – no radio transmissions).

The boomer would then plug into the jet and I’d adjust my rearview mirror on the canopy bow to see the ‘apple,’ a bright orange plastic ball on the boom just ahead of the end of the boom itself. If I kept that centered in the mirror, I knew I stayed within the limits of the boom and could stay on there with constant, minor control inputs.

Here's the URL:

https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-363621.html

The attached image is from the official Flight Manual.

Edited June 19, 2024 by II.JG1_Vonrd

[Zabuzard]

The mirrors in this particular jet mechanically can not be adjusted. They are fixed.
Cheers

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Bummer... but thanks for the reply @Zabuzard

[HawkEXO]

The center one is only good for preening your mustache.   Any chance it could be tilted up for better rear visibility?   I'd much rather see my six than check out my (admittedly groovy) aviator sunglasses.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

I would think that it would be at least adjustable by the ground crew to pilot's preference. 

[Zabuzard]

The mirrors for the frontpit are adjustable IRL and we will add that feature.

The one in the rear pit are attached on one screw each and you would need to bend the metal to adjust them.

Just move your camera behind them and you will see how they are attached mechanically.

Edited June 20, 2024 by Zabuzard

[Zabuzard]

The hard part is teaching DCS to also change the camera angle on the texture

The rotation part just takes 5 minutes:

[Hiob]

Let's be real - mirrors (every aspect of them) are one of the annoying "quirks" of DCS. Given how much performance they cost, they really don't deliver.....

Probably low on any priority list, but I hope they take it on properly at a glorious day in the future!

Edited June 20, 2024 by Hiob

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

3 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

The mirrors for the frontpit are adjustable IRL and we will add that feature.

Excellent... Thanks!

[Mnemonic]

Also, some liveries for F-4 has extra mirrors for WSO, that are externally attached to the back canopy, like middle mirror on the Turkish Phantoms, currently such mirror is non functional and reflects darkness. Any chance to make it functional?

[virgo47]

On 6/20/2024 at 5:06 PM, Zabuzard said:

The mirrors for the frontpit are adjustable IRL and we will add that feature.

I've just bought F-4E, it looks great (obviously ), but the center mirror in the front pit is really useless with its current angle. I'm really looking forward to either the adjustability, but even a fixed mirror actually looking behind/above me would be great.

[MAXsenna]

I've just bought F-4E, it looks great (obviously ), but the center mirror in the front pit is really useless with its current angle. I'm really looking forward to either the adjustability, but even a fixed mirror actually looking behind/above me would be great.

Are you sure you have the view angles/seat position correct? I'm fine with mine and make AAR so easy!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[virgo47]

23 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Are you sure you have the view angles/seat position correct? I'm fine with mine and make AAR so easy!

I haven't configured my views/snapviews yet, I'll do that very soon (one of the first things I do). But from what I tried so far (moving the camera around), I have to go quite low (the pipper being barely visible) to get a reasonable view.

This is the default view you get without any adjustments, free flight, Caucasus (I snipped the middle-to-top portion of the screen only):

[1BRAVO9]

2 hours ago, virgo47 said:

I haven't configured my views/snapviews yet, I'll do that very soon (one of the first things I do). But from what I tried so far (moving the camera around), I have to go quite low (the pipper being barely visible) to get a reasonable view.

This is the default view you get without any adjustments, free flight, Caucasus (I snipped the middle-to-top portion of the screen only):

Same map, I tried to replicate the same field of view and this is what I got.

 

Mine is a little better.

Are you using TrackIR?

If so are you resetting it and then repositioning your angle?

[virgo47]

12 minutes ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

If so are you resetting it and then repositioning your angle?

I didn't have TrackIR enabled at that moment, no repositioning, it was the first time I used that plane (today)... I don't know. Yours is definitely better, but also much wider, I guess you already readjusted it.

[1BRAVO9]

11 minutes ago, virgo47 said:

I didn't have TrackIR enabled at that moment, no repositioning, it was the first time I used that plane (today)... I don't know. Yours is definitely better, but also much wider, I guess you already readjusted it.

No readjustment.

I just make sure my head (actual not my game) is exactly where I want it to be and then recenter my TrackIR.

So my Track IR may make some adjustments but I haven't made any camera adjustments in the controls section.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "wider", mine is pretty much the same aspect as yours, the only difference is yours is cropped.

See when I crop mine the aspect is almost exact.

Edited April 12 by 1BRAVO9

[virgo47]

2 hours ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "wider"...

OK, so to clarify, this is my whole screen in 1440p resolution, but that's not important - FOV of 78.8° is:

78.8 is pretty narrow, that's what I meant. But that's not the problem, the mirror angle is. Even in your picture there is still too much of a cabin and helmet and not enough stuff behind. Of course, I DON'T know what the real mirror view was, but if it was adjustable at all, I'd set it higher.

[Zabuzard]

OK, so to clarify, this is my whole screen in 1440p resolution, but that's not important - FOV of 78.8° is:

78.8 is pretty narrow, that's what I meant. But that's not the problem, the mirror angle is. Even in your picture there is still too much of a cabin and helmet and not enough stuff behind. Of course, I DON'T know what the real mirror view was, but if it was adjustable at all, I'd set it higher.

You would start with them being set so you can see your control surfaces. Especially for the checks on ground.

And then you might adjust them as needed later on.

[virgo47]

5 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

And then you might adjust them as needed later on.

Thanks for explaining the initial position - although it's not useful while starting in the air (e.g. Free Flight), but let's focus on this adjustment: "Might" meaning already, or in the future? If now, how? I tried to click/mouse-wheel-roll/drag... nothing.

(BTW: Sorry for starting my F-4E journey with the mirrors... this will not spoil it for me, of course. )

[Zabuzard]

Thanks for explaining the initial position - although it's not useful while starting in the air (e.g. Free Flight), but let's focus on this adjustment: "Might" meaning already, or in the future? If now, how? I tried to click/mouse-wheel-roll/drag... nothing.
(BTW: Sorry for starting my F-4E journey with the mirrors... this will not spoil it for me, of course. )

Its as mentioned earlier in the thread.
Some of them are supposed to be adjustable and as such the team will make them adjustable eventually.

The difficulty is not adding the interaction and tilting the mirror. Its teaching DCS that the "camera view" inside the mirror has to change as well.
See the little gif I shared earlier which has the interaction but the actual "picture" shown by the mirrors remains the same - not helpful.

Someone from the team has to sit down, figure it out and make it happen. It's probably rather low on the prio list. But it will be done eventually.

[1BRAVO9]

37 minutes ago, virgo47 said:

OK, so to clarify, this is my whole screen in 1440p resolution, but that's not important - FOV of 78.8° is:

78.8 is pretty narrow, that's what I meant. But that's not the problem, the mirror angle is. Even in your picture there is still too much of a cabin and helmet and not enough stuff behind. Of course, I DON'T know what the real mirror view was, but if it was adjustable at all, I'd set it higher.

Touche.

Have you tried moving the head/camera position in the cockpit?

[virgo47]

Just now, 1BRAVO9 said:

Touche.

Have you tried moving the head/camera position in the cockpit?

Nope.

 

2 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

Someone from the team has to sit down, figure it out and make it happen. It's probably rather low on the prio list. But it will be done eventually.

Yup, no biggie, I've seen the whole thread, just wasn't sure about the current state. It will wait.

[1BRAVO9]

Just now, virgo47 said:

Nope.

 

Yup, no biggie, I've seen the whole thread, just wasn't sure about the current state. It will wait.

Try that its helped people before.

It's in the controls section.

The key binds are listed as "Cockpit Camera Move"

Cap from the Grim Reapers had a similar problem as you in one plane.

He explains how to correct some of it in this video:

 

Let me know if you think that will work.

[virgo47]

2 minutes ago, 1BRAVO9 said:

Try that its helped people before.

It's in the controls section.

The key binds are listed as "Cockpit Camera Move"

Thanks, I know this camera stuff and how to move my head - I forgot to mention I'm a control/view/snapview freak. Head position can make this marginaly better, but the core issue (and as I said, no biggie) is the mirror angle, not the head position. Changing the head position messes up with too many other things - e.g. the HUD.

[1BRAVO9]

1 minute ago, virgo47 said:

Thanks, I know this camera stuff and how to move my head - I forgot to mention I'm a control/view/snapview freak. Head position can make this marginaly better, but the core issue (and as I said, no biggie) is the mirror angle, not the head position. Changing the head position messes up with too many other things - e.g. the HUD.

Sorry, just trying to help.

I understand though, I'm the same way.