Add AIM9L to F-5E Tiger II inventory

[INDY69]

Belsimtek there is a significant need in PvP Cold War (Heat Blur ECW to be precise) for an AIM9 missile more capable than the 9P3 (all aspect), but less capable than the 9P5.
Please consider adding the AIM9L to the F5E inventory as soon as practical to increase capability of the F5 in PvP.
There is a discussion about this topic if you need more data on the HeatBlur Discord:
https://discord.com/channels/1071433028045377637/1257916946343792680
Thank you for your time.

[Silver_Dragon]

9 minutes ago, INDY69 said:

Belsimtek there is a significant need in PvP Cold War (Heat Blur ECW to be precise) for an AIM9 missile more capable than the 9P3 (all aspect), but less capable than the 9P5.
Please consider adding the AIM9L to the F5E inventory as soon as practical to increase capability of the F5 in PvP.
There is a discussion about this topic if you need more data on the HeatBlur Discord:
https://discord.com/channels/1071433028045377637/1257916946343792680
Thank you for your time.

Belsimtek 3rd Party was closed and rejoin to ED many years ago... All work about the F-5E has over ED team.

[INDY69]

Thanks Dragon.  I'll post something over there in addition to my FC4 post.

[SkateZilla]

On 7/3/2024 at 5:22 PM, Silver_Dragon said:

Belsimtek 3rd Party was closed and rejoin to ED many years ago... All work about the F-5E has over ED team.

Belsimtek was a Team that was detached from ED to demonstrate 3rd Parties, and has been re-integrated back into ED.

The Lima was never on the F-5E-3.

Edited July 21, 2024 by SkateZilla

[abitar]

Hello SkateZilla, would it be possible to put functional A/A missiles under the wings, on the F-5's outboard pylons? What changes would need to be made to which files? Thanks!

[Czar66]

19 hours ago, abitar said:

Hello SkateZilla, would it be possible to put functional A/A missiles under the wings, on the F-5's outboard pylons? What changes would need to be made to which files? Thanks!

The variant we have in DCS didn't carry missiles under the wing. Only overhauled variants did. (perhaps inacurate). This discussion comes and goes since the module released.

I'm all for new variants to come (paid pack) for current modules, especially for the F-5E, though. It is a very special module to me.

It would suffice a Tiger III variant as an 'expansion' for me, personally... or even the 'S', or 'EM'. Others would also be very much welcomed, but the E we have never had the capability of carrying missiles (A/A) under the wing.

Edited April 2 by Czar66
Inacurate info. Confusing aircraft production and its upgrades..

[BalkanBattler]

10 hours ago, Czar66 said:

The variant we have in DCS didn't carry missiles under the wing. Only overhauled variants did. This discussion comes and goes since the module released.

We have a US Navy F-5N purchased bac from the Swiss in 2006 in DCS, according to Wags, which did/does carry the AIM-9L/M.

[Czar66]

16 minutes ago, BalkanBattler said:

We have a US Navy F-5N purchased bac from the Swiss in 2006 in DCS, according to Wags, which did/does carry the AIM-9L/M.

Why isn't the module called F-5N instead?

[BalkanBattler]

37 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Why isn't the module called F-5N instead?

Like you, I have wondered this and I have asked, and have not been answered in these forums. However, we have a direct quote from Wags stating that as of the re-master, this is now the F-5 that was purchased by the US Navy in 2006. Meaning, it is no longer an F-5E-3 operated by the USAF. In fact, all references to F-5E **3** have been removed from the store page of both the original and remastered module. 

Swiss F-5's did carry Sidewinders under the wings, although never operationally. Hence the request from abitar above. 

I personally would have preferred an F-5E that best represents the default capabilities that Northrop designed and shipped from factory, like the refueling probe, mavericks, INS, dual radios, etc. Despite some prevailing mis-understanding on the internet, Northrop engineered the F-5E for export with these functions. It's just that some operators did not purchase the whole package. The best representation of an F-5E as designed by Northrop is the F-5E sold to the Saudi's. It included the removable fuel probe, INS, mavericks, JATO, and even AGM-45 Shrike capability. 

Alas

Edited April 2 by BalkanBattler

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, BalkanBattler said:

Like you, I have wondered this and I have asked, and have not been answered in these forums. However, we have a direct quote from Wags stating that as of the re-master, this is now the F-5 that was purchased by the US Navy in 2006. Meaning, it is no longer an F-5E-3 operated by the USAF. In fact, all references to F-5E **3** have been removed from the store page of both the original and remastered module. 

Ok, I don't know about the wags quote but the rest holds ground. But a few things here:

1 hour ago, BalkanBattler said:

Swiss F-5's did carry Sidewinders under the wings, although never operationally. Hence the request from abitar above. 

I'm struggling to find info for that. If any source is available and post able here, it would be good to see and substantiate the claim that is dragging for years now.

1 hour ago, BalkanBattler said:

I personally would have preferred an F-5E that best represents the default capabilities that Northrop designed and shipped from factory, like the refueling probe, mavericks, INS, dual radios

Did the E really done that from the factory? Those upgrades were done much later after those Es were fully delivered. I too would love some mavs and AAR, and especially 4x A-A missiles.

I'd love to have the AAR, as my country did own the EM variant with capability of carrying A-A (fox 1 or 3, I don't remember) missiles under the wings, Litening III pods and jammers along with complete avionics overhaul. That variant would be crazy wild (absolute dream) to have in DCS, although would diverge by a lot from the initial E model.

1 hour ago, BalkanBattler said:

Despite some prevailing mis-understanding on the internet, Northrop engineered the F-5E for export with these functions. It's just that some operators did not purchase the whole package. The best representation of an F-5E as designed by Northrop is the F-5E sold to the Saudi's. It included the removable fuel probe, INS, mavericks, JATO, and even AGM-45 Shrike capability. 

I'd love to read more about the Saudi F-5Es, but those upgrades were done after those Es were in active duty.

Likely is my personal #1 wish is for the F-5 module to have a expansion pack for many of these variants.
I still can't fault ED to make the bare bone 5E which is used in Red Flag and you never see an AAR probe in them, for example.

Having said that, I dislike any resistance to make the other variants available either, even if that means a paid expansion pack to pair the price with other more complex modules to reward the work done on the new integrations.

Happy flying out there.

Edited April 2 by Czar66

[BalkanBattler]

Sure thing, here is the quote

Here is a Swiss F-5E evaluating 4x Sidewinders

Yes, the F-5E could and was shipped from factory with the ability to air refuel. Some operators chose not to buy this, and so the switches were not included for example. Same with the JATO for example - you can see the mounting lugs for 4x JATO bottles on the F-5E remastered version, but the switch is not in the cockpit. That is ok, because the Swiss did not use JATO bottles. But this is a good example - the Jet is capable, it was designed to use it, it just depends on whether the operator paid for the feature. Mavericks as well - this was a factory feature sold to the Saudi's - not added-in after-the-fact. This is a common misconception. 

There is a very common misconception that these features were always "bolted on" after the sale. This is true sometimes, as in the Brazilian F-5's. However, it is not true for other export F-5's. Again, the example of the Saudi F-5's is pertinent here - they shipped from the factory with the right display, armament panels, and fuel panels to run AGM-65, Fuel probe, and JATO. 
Source: Northrop F-5, Jon Lake and Robert Hewson, World Airpower Journal, Vol 25, 1996.

42 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

I'd love to read more about the Saudi F-5Es, but those upgrades were done after those Es were in active duty.

No. It was not always done after-the-fact. See above. As part of the Peace Hawk sale, "These two aircraft (F-SEs) [...] were delivered from production in December 1976" with the upgrades. Again - the point which I am trying very hard to make perfectly clear is that Northrop was able to and did deliver F-5's with all of the "features" directly from production. This is just one example.
PEACE HAWK: A CASE STUDY OF A FOREIGN MILITARY SALES PROGRAM AND ITS MANAGEMENT
Harry T. Drury, III, Captain, USAF
Peter J. Glenboski, Jr., Captain, USAF

 

 

52 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

 

Likely is my personal #1 wish is for the F-5 module to have a expansion pack for many of these variants.
I still can't fault ED to make the bare bone 5E which is used in Red Flag and you never see an AAR probe in them, for example.

Having said that, I dislike any resistance to make the other variants available either, even if that means a paid expansion pack to pair the price with other more complex modules to reward the work done on the new integrations.

Happy flying out there.

I would be happy to pay for an upgrade that includes Mavs and a probe for example. 

I can't fault Belsimtek for making a barebones USAF Red Flag Jet. I can be disappointed that ED decided to model an F-5N, call it an F-5E, lie about "re-building the cockpit from scratch", missing the dual radios and INS due to "lack of data" (even though I provided data in the wishlist) deleting my posts  when they went viral on reddit, and then re-instating them after telling me to include a link to my source (my bad). lol!

[Czar66]

2 minutes ago, BalkanBattler said:

Sure thing, here is the quote

Here is a Swiss F-5E evaluating 4x Sidewinders

Fascinating, I've learned a few things here, thank you.

I stand corrected about the rest. Thank you. ED's stance doesn't look as convincing.

I couldn't read/verify the: "World Airpower Journal, Vol 25, 1996".

"PEACE HAWK: A CASE STUDY OF A FOREIGN MILITARY SALES PROGRAM AND ITS MANAGEMENT", good quick read.

[SkateZilla]

Apologies,
I have been working on a Mod Project, but at present it's at a slow pace as other things have taken priority,

I was posting regular updates in my Wingtip Tanks Mod thread, 
As the mod originated from that,
The New Mod when finished would be Titled: "F-5E Expansion",

Previous Discussions:

Mod Thread w/ other updates:

 

[abitar]

5 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Peço desculpas,
tenho trabalhado em um projeto de mod, mas no momento ele está em um ritmo lento, pois outras coisas têm prioridade.

Estou postando atualizações regulares no meu tópico Wingtip Tanks Mod. 
Como o mod se originou disso,
o novo mod, quando concluído, será intitulado: "Expansão do F-5E".

Discussões anteriores:

Tópico de mod com outras atualizações:

 

Very cool Skatezila! Looking forward to using this mod! To join the discussion, despite being relatively new to DCS, I don't see how it could be a problem to modernize the F-5E, if this really happened and some are still being used today. Here is a detail photo of a 5-5EM from the FAB published in 2014 with the Python 4 (on the tip) and Derby (under the wing) missiles - photo by Marcelo Lobo da Silva, and another photo from the FAB.

[Czar66]

11 hours ago, abitar said:

To join the discussion, despite being relatively new to DCS, I don't see how it could be a problem to modernize the F-5E, if this really happened and some are still being used today.

Happy to have you here, compatriota. That would require a paid expansion for the module or even a different module because of the sheer amount of new stuff. Our FAB F-5s EM has entirely new avionics outside Northrop production, another radar and that's just skimming the surface. EMs also carry the Litening III and a jammer pod that are not currently in DCS.

A lot of work to be done (still an understatement) and other projects would naturally assume a much higher priority for ED. (F-15C, MiG-29, F-35...)

There are so much content potential for the F-5, it is ridiculous indeed.

[abitar]

16 minutes ago, Czar66 said:

Fico feliz em ter você aqui, compatriota. Isso exigiria uma expansão paga para o módulo ou até mesmo um módulo diferente devido à grande quantidade de coisas novas. Nossos FAB F-5s EM têm aviônicos inteiramente novos fora da produção da Northrop, outro radar e isso é apenas a superfície. Os EMs também carregam o Litening III e um pod de jammer que não estão atualmente no DCS.

Há muito trabalho a ser feito (ainda um eufemismo) e outros projetos naturalmente assumiriam uma prioridade muito maior para a ED. (F-15C, MiG-29, F-35...)

Há tanto potencial de conteúdo para o F-5 que é realmente ridículo.

Yes, yes, it has the avionics, and the updated radar... but I just think that more missiles under the wings would be a good start... If you're interested, I've uploaded a current paint job of our F-5 for the remastered version. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3344112/
It took a bit of work, but I'm happy with the result.

[Czar66]

17 minutes ago, abitar said:

Yes, yes, it has the avionics, and the updated radar... but I just think that more missiles under the wings would be a good start... If you're interested, I've uploaded a current paint job of our F-5 for the remastered version. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3344112/
It took a bit of work, but I'm happy with the result.

Yes! I wanted that! I saw your work in progress on the other thread. Thanks!

[SkateZilla]

4 hours ago, Czar66 said:

Happy to have you here, compatriota. That would require a paid expansion for the module or even a different module because of the sheer amount of new stuff. Our FAB F-5s EM has entirely new avionics outside Northrop production, another radar and that's just skimming the surface. EMs also carry the Litening III and a jammer pod that are not currently in DCS.

A lot of work to be done (still an understatement) and other projects would naturally assume a much higher priority for ED. (F-15C, MiG-29, F-35...)

There are so much content potential for the F-5, it is ridiculous indeed.

and the F-302.. Ooops.

 

[Czar66]

8 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

and the F-302.. Ooops.

 

[VZ_342]

JATO rockets, eh? 

[BalkanBattler]

19 hours ago, VZ_342 said:

JATO rockets, eh? 

 

[abitar]

On 4/2/2025 at 4:11 PM, SkateZilla said:

Apologies,
I have been working on a Mod Project, but at present it's at a slow pace as other things have taken priority,

I was posting regular updates in my Wingtip Tanks Mod thread, 
As the mod originated from that,
The New Mod when finished would be Titled: "F-5E Expansion",

Previous Discussions:

Mod Thread w/ other updates:

 

I managed to get some A/A missiles to appear under the wings of the Remastered F-5 by modifying the F-5E-3.lua, but I couldn't activate them. What else would I need to change? Would it be in the same file? I would really appreciate if you could show me a way! Thanks!

[SkateZilla]

22 hours ago, abitar said:

I managed to get some A/A missiles to appear under the wings of the Remastered F-5 by modifying the F-5E-3.lua, but I couldn't activate them. What else would I need to change? Would it be in the same file? I would really appreciate if you could show me a way! Thanks!

no, pylon restrictions are hardcoded in the PFM/Systems DLL.