Tactics for surviving missions??

[flyinfriend]

Hi,

 

I'm new to this forum, I have been flight simming for many years. I have been reading the forum here and learning BS for a month or so. For the most part I have been flying my missions in 'indestructo' mode. :) I tried flying the 'Convoy' mission a couple of nights ago without 'indestructo' turned on. I was immediately blown out of the air by a SAM when I approached one of the 3 convoy areas. So I re-started and I tried again, this time as I approached the attack zone I began getting shelled and my 'wingman said 'enagaging defiensive', flew by me/into me and clipped my tail sending me tumbling and spinning through the air. I should have shot him down at this point. :cry: I regained control and tried to run away like a scared little girl. :lol: However when I got over and below a ridge in what I thought was a 'safe zone' I found myself being pummeled by AAA. I took care of him with my cannons but ended up getting my tail shot off (literally), a single blade from the lower rotor blown away, and I had to land. My question is, do you stand off from a long distance and engage or do you agressively approach and try to set up?

 

I'm loving the sim and having a blast but I don't survive long without my 'indestructo' crutch.

 

:helpsmilie:

 

Thank you all,

 

Tom

[sobek]

Welcome!

 

You stand no chance against AAA and SAMs close up, so whenever you can, take them out with ATGMs from max range. After that you are relatively safe to go in and take out the remaining targets with cannon or rockets.

[slowhand]

rule 1 never run in to the trgt area(you will get the crap shot out of you) with out a lil recon.. use the hiils,valleys and the citys.. to mask your movement in to the trgt area...rule 2 keep your eyes moving there your best tool out there look for con trails, smoke from tanks or arty and my fav AAA tracers..and #3 if you hear betty tell'n you your under attack or the lwr is go'n off move and do it asap..cus your about to be a smoke'n hole..these are i think any chopper drives 3 main rules..there are more but these i think these will help..5x5

[ntonis]

think like a hunder!!

hide and watch!!!

strike!!!

live!!!:thumbup:

[th3flyboy]

avoid SAMs like the devil, and pray.....

[connos]

Send your wingman to recon the area while you are Hovering in a safe distance. Also play the sim as in real life and try to avoid dying at all cost, this gives a new immersion to the sim. I use to ignore laser warnings a lot and just doing my hunting, but after i got shot couble of times i change my tactic.

[Kurtz]

Hi,

 

My question is, do you stand off from a long distance and engage or do you agressively approach and try to set up?

 

 

:helpsmilie:

 

Thank you all,

 

Tom

 

A: Stand off outside 5km

 

An agressive assault at close range will most likly end up with your brains splattered like this screenshot. Once you take out a few targets, its a good idea to break off, fall back a little, then pop up somewhere else. I think one of the Apache drivers in this forum gave some good advise in the past "Attack, then fade".

 

Edited May 15, 2009 by Kurtz

[Panzertard]

Many good hints here. :)

Some more that I've learned my first few rookie days are:

 

* Always enable CTRL-ENTER and check Flare dispenser settings.

* LALT-W to arm, RShift-O (lase standby) at ingress.

* H and O then ENTER to quickly target in a general direction.

 

* When you detect targets, try to find a standoff (as previously mentioned) position low, with a low cover in front. Cover can be a slope, low hill.

6-7 km's are ideal for Vikhr.

Use LALT-T for hovering autopilot. Use Q for turn to target.

 

* If detected by movers, pull back to the direction you came from - 8-9 km's. Then you will have time to get down low, settle, calmy target them back. And move closer if you need to.

Use LALT-T for hovering autopilot. Use Q for turn to target.

 

* If detected by movers, but out of standoff armament - try to find rugged enough terrain 5 km's away, stay NOE (Nap Of the Earth).

Lase and aim at the hilltop/road they come over - be prepared. Let them come to you.

If guns, remember to pull lead when firing at movers.

If they move over the hilltop faster than you can kill them, retreat another 3- km's and repeat.

If emergency break: INSERT (Flare), BACKSPACE (Target reset?), then LALT-T to disable Autohover, then C (cannon off if enabled) to get full Hud back while egressing.

 

* If only infantry left / stinger pods - standoff at 4 km's, enough for your HE gunnery to kill them, and barely out of their effective range. But stay low. And have an egress route planned - you may have to move quickly if you are detected and fired upon.

 

Lastly, have a cigar and return to plate with a grin in time for happy hour:pilotfly:

Edited May 15, 2009 by Panzertard
Wrong info corrected I hope ...

[flyinfriend]

Hi All,

 

Thanks very much for all of the great advice. I think the pilot in the screen shot just had an accident with his burger from the drive/fly through. :) I'll try out the tactics you have all recommended and make my approaches MUCH more cautiously. What a great forum and a helpful group.

 

Thanks again,

 

Tom

[EtherealN]

Another note: the convoy mission is especially dangerous if you are not cautious, since your route can actually bring you in between the convoys (all defended by AAA). I had a run (my first on that mission) with it where I was forced to flee with damage - and it only took me straight into the path of another convoy.

 

I survived, and did exact revenge on one of the convoys, but I did beat myself off massively for my rampant failure.

 

One important thing, I have found, is to not slavishly follow the flight plan. Consider the flight plan a recommendation - and then study the terrain and decide on a well masked flight path that will always offer you some hiding place - and make damn certain to always have a scouted escape route.

 

EDIT: Also, remember that it is better to fight another day than to gloriously sacrifice your life. Mostly. Obviously there are many heroes that have valiantly sacrificed their lives IRL to save the lives of others, and I do not want to diminish their choice, but in general you should not have the mindset of "achieving the mission at any cost". Remember, you are flying several millions of dollars worth of hardware, and your pilot's training has cost about a million more. It should be an extremely important objective to motivate you to put yourself at great risk, since most objectives are worth less than the continued use of both yourself and your aircraft.

 

This isn't all that well fit to single-missions, I admit, but the fact that DCS saves pilot data will give a good analog anyhow. If you do not find a way to make a good and safe ingress, don't do it unless the objective is extremely important. (IRL you would find examples of people taking extra risk because they have wing comrades downed in an area or similar whose survival may be dependant on air support.)

Edited May 15, 2009 by EtherealN

[Chelco]

Great advice here. I'm taking notes out of this thread.

 

In my blog I started bundling up and adapting some stuff I found on the web about tactics.

A few days ago I posted the first entry (out of three). I will post more in the near future. Make sure to check the sources listed at the end of the blog entry.

 

Cheers,

[Dusty Rhodes]

EtherealN, I think you were meaning to say you beat yourself "up", not "off". LMAO :D :D Your English is amazingly good, but it failed you that time. :D :D :D

[EtherealN]

Oh whoops... >.<

 

Yeah Dusty... That's a bit of a blooper... :P

[Dusty Rhodes]

That was funny as hell and a mistake any of us can make. Again, your mastery of English is amazing.

 

Stand off. That is the key and battle space awareness. You have to know when you are in cowboy country (Good Guy) and when you are in Indian country (Bad Guy). That helps you identify battle positions that maximize your stand off.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, I blame the fact that I have three languages in everyday use, and it can get confusing. :P

 

But yeah, to reinforce the point about stand-off - all Ka-50 pilots should remember that you have weapons with superior range to most of your target. Even your 30mm has an effective range (against appropriate targets) that rivals and exceeds most Main Battle Tank's gun ranges. Always try to position yourselves so that you can use that advantage.

 

Everyone makes mistakes in deployment, but generally speaking you should always count you being shot at as a failure on your own part. I greatly recommend using Tacview while flying, since you can then do a very thorough analysis of what mistakes you made. So while you will always make mistakes (Gods know I commit my fair share of "stupid" mistakes), a tool like that will help you make sure that the mistakes you commit are relatively minor ones.

Edited May 15, 2009 by EtherealN

[GGTharos]

Tank main guns can engage 10km out if they want to - they don't train so much for that (but they do train) - it's just that you can only simulate so much and have it make sense.

 

This is why a human will typically be able to much better take advantage of the sim's weapons envelopes than an AI.

[EtherealN]

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks GG.

 

Question though - what kind of accuracy would an M1 or T-90 have over a range like that?

[GGTharos]

Let's start with M-60 actually - the Accuracy isn't good. This isn't a 'good first hit probality' scenario unlike the within-4-km laser-ranged combat scenario.

 

It's meant to be used under special circumstances, potentially as very short range artillery, or attacking immobile targets. It was used by the Israelis, and that's the only example I know of.

[CE_Mikemonster]

I suppose a tank platoon could surpress a helicopter from fairly far then..? [given billboard terrain]

[GGTharos]

Nope, a heli can start pounding them from pretty far away, given billboard terrain. The tanks can try, but they're more likely to start running for cover IMHO, and call friendly CAP to help.

 

Now once you get to within 4km, things change. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't sit around behind some trees to find out if that Sabot only has 20% of hitting me ... :D At this point you want to be moving to make yourself difficult to hit.

[EtherealN]

And I expect that that would be one of the reasons to the adage of "attack then fade". If you sneak up on a foe and give them a couple of ATGM's, that's all fine, but I gather that if your ATGM range is <8km then you will also know that there is a chance (however small) of remaining elements to the tank column of taking you out in return. Therefore you would move out and get a new firing position.

 

You could compare with sniping in a land warfare zone - even if your rifle has an "effective" range of 2km, and their AK's have an effective range of "only" 1km, if you know that their rifles can still send bullets to the 2km between you you'll not feel too good about just sitting there. You'll know that 10 guys each sending several bullets per second your way will eventually get lucky - so you'll move to a new position where they no longer will know where to aim for.

[GGTharos]

... Unless you're using LOAL with off-board designation, or packing Hellifre-MMW. Then you're a tanker's nightmare.

He can't see you, and you're potentially hitting all his tanks at the same time.

[Dusty Rhodes]

ATGM warfare back in the 80's and 90's, from the ground was to fire 2 missiles and unass the battle position for an alternate. It doesn't take long for the enemy to zero in counter fire to your position with systems that can reach out and touch you even if the enemy you are firing on can't reach you. I would believe that Air ATGM missions are the same way. Know the lay of the land and have a plan B and C to lay carnage on the enemy without getting shot yourself.

[LastRifleRound]

... Unless you're using LOAL with off-board designation, or packing Hellifre-MMW. Then you're a tanker's nightmare.

He can't see you, and you're potentially hitting all his tanks at the same time.

 

 

MMMmmmmmmm.....

 

LOAL......:music_whistling: