Constant Stuttering...I Don't Know What Else To Do!!!

[SharpeXB]

17 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

I was referring to the stuttering problems with games in general and DCS in particular.

You’re trying to tell me I have problems I’m not having? Again I don’t have stuttering trouble. When you say “problem” I figure you meant the OP

17 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

I have assured the OP cannot be completely eliminated by throwing money at expensive hardware.

So you’re telling the OP there’s no solution for their trouble. That’s pretty useless advice. Why are you here? Oh I figure you’re trying to promote yourself as a PC builder but I don’t think you’re doing a very convincing job.

Edited July 27, 2024 by SharpeXB

[kksnowbear]

Wow, dude you can contort anything, huh?

The problems I referred to as having been explained to you - by two different people, nonetheless - are the problems I also said cannot be completely eliminated by any amount of money spent on hardware or settings.  This is corroborated elsewhere many times over, and wonderfully expounded upon by LucShep in this very thread.

Try to keep up.

No one (except you) is concerned with whether you have problems or not.  (Incidentally, how does insisting you have no problems help the OP, exactly?)

16 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So you’re telling the OP there’s no solution for their trouble.

And for the umpteenth time, stop saying I said stuff I didn't.  I haven't once said to the OP there's no solution for his trouble.  Do I need to paste in my exact quote for you, again?  It's not even amusing at this point, and it's certainly not helpful discussion.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[SharpeXB]

2 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

the problems I also said cannot be solved by any amount of money spent on hardware or settings.

But I solved them. Am I just lucky?

3 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

I haven't once said to the OP there's no solution.

Didn’t you just say “the problems I also said cannot be solved by any amount of money spent on hardware or settings.”

What’s your solution then if not hardware? And there is a solution because I’m sure most people don’t have this trouble. Again I don’t. 

[kksnowbear]

The problems I keep on telling you cannot be solved are the exact ones LucShep described at length.  But let's not take my word for it...

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

But, in anycase, the reality is that the sort of machine that the newest DCS 2.9x version requires to be absolutely stutter free still does not exhist.

Read that last part carefully.

And to be clear, you haven't solved the problems we're talking about  LucShep tried to explain that although you may not think you have the problems he and I are referring to, they are absolutely there.

I can explain (and LucShep already has) to anyone who listens...but that's not you.  You're arguing, not listening.

[SharpeXB]

12 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Read that last part carefully.

Well he’s wrong because I own a machine that can run DCS perfectly well. I’m sure lots of people can. 
Despite claiming to be a computer guru in every post you have yet to provide any real help for the OP

@tedcrowley18 By now you must realize it’s a big waste of time trying to ask for help here. If you want real advice, start a thread in the Bugs Game Performance section. Post your DCS.log and dxdiag there. They’re pretty good about responding with actual information.

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/483-game-performance-bugs/

If you have tech support available for your PC I’d contact them as well. There are all sorts of reasons why a PC might not perform well but more information and troubleshooting will be necessary to figure it out. 

 

[kksnowbear]

4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Well he’s wrong...

Yeah. He's wrong. I'm wrong...people he and I referred to here on this very site...

All wrong, according to you.  All are doing something wrong, or have broken hardware...

 

Oh, and to be accurate, I most assuredly did offer the OP some expert advice and it's spot on.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

4 hours ago, LucShep said:

But, in anycase, the reality is that the sort of machine that the newest DCS 2.9x version requires to be absolutely stutter free still does not exhist.

Yes it does. I’m sure there are many players who run this without trouble

My previous point, which was in the post that you quote that from, was also to demonstrate that not everyone will be able to see these problems.
Because we all have different perceptions, sensibilities, or even tolerances, to those problems that do occur, frequently or not.  

 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

4 hours ago, LucShep said:

Your yardstick for "smooth performance" (your own PC, looking at its specs in your signature) is currently beyond the capabilities of, I'd say, the majority of active DCS users.

That is certainly true but look what I’m running, 4K 120Hz at all the highest settings. You don’t need such hardware to run the game in 1080p 60Hz at medium settings. DCS really is not a particularly demanding game provided you run settings compatible with your hardware. 

Not a particularly demanding game?    You jest, surely. 

There are only a handfull of games that I can recall being as harsh (or badly optmized) as DCS, to demand the sort of hardware specs that people feel compelled to invest, to brute force around all the problems.

I think you're totally oblivious to the reality.
We're not talking scenarios like a free flight of Su-25T over Caucasus with a handful of tanks, because that surely can not be considered the example these days.

Have you even entered a fully populated server, popular ones like ECW or 4YA, with, say, an F-14A/B module in Syria map? 
Very few people (if any, at all?) will be able to say that they have the perfect performance experience that you describe having there.

What's the average "new build for DCS" these days?
Ryzen 7800X3D, RTX4070TI Super or RTX4080 Super (both 16GB VRAM), 64GB DDR5 (6000 C30) RAM, 2TB or 4TB high-range NVME... something like that right?
And then what are the "official" hardware requirements that are listed again?   Does that make any sense?

Are you even aware of what's the average gaming PC these days?
I'd wager that it's something like a Ryzen 3600X or i5 10600K, RTX3060 or RX6650XT, 16GB DDR4 RAM (32GB with luck), 1TB SATA SSD or ultra-budget NVME, along those lines.
I'm very convinced that it's those systems that compose a very considerable part (if not most) of the userbase, because that's also I'm most frequently asked to assist with. 
Even at 1080P, those will increasingly have to run the game at near-Minecraft image quality to enter and compete in those servers. And stuttering gallore, ooh I assure you. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

8 minutes ago, LucShep said:

My previous point, which was in the post that you quote that from, was also to demonstrate that not everyone will be able to see these problems.

So they have problems but they just can’t see them? How’s that a problem then? You have a nice self-concealing theory there

11 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Not a particularly demanding game?    You jest, surely.

Oh there are tougher games than this by far. MSFS for one. 

12 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Have you even entered a fully populated server, popular ones like ECW or 4YA, with, say, an F-14A/B module in Syria map?

Yes I get like 100-140 FPS on all the max settings and in 4K

You realize your perspective on this is due to running the game in VR. This game is indeed too demanding for VR. It was never meant for that. 

[kksnowbear]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

7 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

And to be brutally clear, no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters, at least not for the time being. Again, IMHO.

Not true. Many many people run this game without any problems like that. 

BTW I'm gonna guess those people you're referring to aren't running a 4060ti* on a 7600k platform with DDR4-2400 memory at 4k, either. You ignore that, too?

First thing I said is that this is grossly mismatched...and it is. So much for your accusations I haven't offered any help.

Fact is, that's a seriously mismatched setup, and it damn well could be causing a lot of problems.

And while I can't promise him that's what is causing his problem, you can't promise me it's not, either.

* I'm not sure whether it's been specified...but if this is one of the 8G/128bit 4060Ti cards...well, those are known for their own issues, as well. Once the VRAM is starting to run short, everything has to then be moved over that agonizingly slow 128bit bus.  And the higher the resolution, the worse it will get.  Some sources have already decreed that 8G VRAM isn't enough for recent games like it was back in the GTX1070 days.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

19 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

So they have problems but they just can’t see them? How’s that a problem then? You have a nice self-concealing theory there

Oh there are tougher games than this by far. MSFS for one. 

Yes I get like 100-140 FPS on all the max settings and in 4K

You realize your perspective on this is due to running the game in VR. This game is indeed too demanding for VR. It was never meant for that. 

My perspective is of someone who has dealt with all the problems that you, clearly, have no idea they even exhist.

How about if I tell you that (over?) a 1/3 of the game total size is comprised of badly oversized and formated textures?
That the game is unable to fit those inside the 8GB VRAM of GPUs that most people are still using?
Do you even understand what happens when the VRAM of a GPU is filled up and it gets to the RAM and, when that's filled to the top, then to the pagefile that is slow (AF!) in sata ssd or budget nvme?

Try this... get a three or four year old used 8GB vram GPU (RX6600XT, etc) in your system, then take a stick of RAM out of your PC; cap that processor to, say, 2 P-Cores only, and then get into that ECW or 4YA fully populated server again and, sure, go ahead and put that screen set at 1080P. (and yet you'll still have more performance than the average guy out there!)
Then get back to us with the story of perfect smooth undemanding experience.........   LMAO

Regarding VR, that's your opinion based on speculation only.
DCS could run pretty decent in VR and, indeed, it once did.  It comparatively runs like heaven in 2.56, on systems less capable than mine.
The question should be "why can it not run like that today with 2.9x", if it was more capable years ago? (and note, was already demanding then)
Because, in various aspects, we clearly have had the contrary of progress.

Edited July 28, 2024 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

18 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Oh, and to be accurate, I most assuredly did offer the OP some expert advice and it's spot on

Sure you told him to basically buy a whole new computer but that it wouldn’t help since no amount of money would solve the problem. That’s so far from any real tech support it’s laughable. 

[kksnowbear]

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

31 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Oh, and to be accurate, I most assuredly did offer the OP some expert advice and it's spot on

Sure you told him to basically buy a whole new computer but that it wouldn’t help since no amount of money would solve the problem.

You have serious comprehension problems, I guess...that's not what I said.

Please stop contorting what I say.

[SharpeXB]

36 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

You have serious comprehension problems, I guess...that's not what I said.

Please stop contorting what I say.

This is what you said:

”In a nutshell, you need to upgrade your motherboard, CPU, and probably the RAM as well.”

Thats basically a whole new PC. Except the graphics card. And the drives but essentially that’s a new machine. Oh and again you said “no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters” so why bother?
I know what getting real tech support is like and you’re so far from that it’s hilarious. 

[kksnowbear]

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

”In a nutshell, you need to upgrade your motherboard, CPU, and probably the RAM as well.”

Thats basically a whole new PC.

Not in terms of cost it's not. Anybody who's bought a high end GPU in the past several years can tell you that.  My 4090 cost several times what the CPU, motherboard and RAM did.

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

And the drives...

And the case. And the PSU...

Sorry but it's not a whole computer.

It's also not my fault that it's a very dated platform paired with a current-gen (albeit hobbled) GPU.

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Oh and again you said “no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters” so why bother?

Here we go with the whole lack of comprehension again...

I didn't say it wouldn't help.  In fact, I can assure the OP there are lots of ways to help.  But nothing changes the fact that it's a seriously dated platform...

...and none of it changes the fact that no amount of expensive hardware will completely eliminate the stutters.

Just like I said.

You don't seem to be able to distinguish that from "You should replace the whole thing, but even that won't help".

Most people don't have trouble seeing these are neither the same statements, nor even the same concepts.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

Stuttering is not a black and white issue. And perception is not objective. An objective way to measure it, is 1% lows, or even better a frametime graph, that shows how long the frames take to produce. For example:

This graph shows very bad stuttering, as you can see huge spikes. Some frames take 3 or 4 times the average time, and those frames cause the old frame to be shown for a very long time, which is a stutter. This is a much better graph:

But even in this graph, you can see that there are little spikes. These spikes are so small that no one would notice them, most likely, but they are still there.

Anyway, the goal is not to get rid of stutter, by getting to a graph without spikes, but getting the spikes low enough that you won't notice anymore. And what you notice depends on the individual.

And of course, it's not just about the spikes anyway, because the easiest way to reduce the spikes is to lower the graphics settings. So the actual goal is to have the highest perceived graphical quality (which is subjective) with an acceptable level of stutter (which is subjective) and an acceptable average framerate (which is subjective). Because of that all subjectivity, it is very hard to give really good advice. Some people are very happy with a result that others considers unplayable.

But there are common factors and things we can suggest. The first thing I notice is that running on 4k with these specs is extremely ambitious. Although a higher resolution does put less load on the CPU and more on the GPU, and this system has a better GPU than CPU, it's still highly questionable whether even the video card can keep up. The 4060 Ti is a strong 1080p card, a mediocre 1440p card and a poor 4k card. If it is the 8 GB version, then it is especially ill suited for 4k.

But the platform is very old and I would suggest considering an upgrade, but I don't know what the financial possibilities are. You can always trying experimenting with the settings. In that case, I would strongly suggest also testing what happens if you lower the resolution.

Edited July 27, 2024 by Aapje

[tedcrowley18]

Thanks for the replies my peeps   It is frustrating that it doesn't work as well as I thought it would.  I am going to try some things here and if I have to try and upgrade I will do that as best as I can for now.

I will keep you posted and let you know how things go...

[tedcrowley18]

lol, also if anyone is willing to donate to a used rig or whatever, im all for it lol

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Aapje said:

the easiest way to reduce the spikes is to lower the graphics settings

Key point. This is not an unsolvable situation. The other important solution is capping your frame rate below that whole green line. Either using Vsync or a limiter. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by SharpeXB

[kksnowbear]

All of which has already been suggested (granted, not with the graphs but that's not crucial to the actual point, just illustration).

And still, the biggest factor in this equation is the fact that the OPs platform is very poorly matched to his GPU - which can very easily cause the exact sort of thing he's reporting, and which was identified in the second post on this thread, within an hour of the OPs original post.

No one is saying he is required to upgrade anything.  He can and should try the other suggestions.  The mismatched components will, however, remain the biggest factor in the equation unless/until it is changed.  It's not unheard of for a mismatched CPU to be associated with excessive stuttering - and he's certainly got that.

And, once again, no one at any point in this entire thread has said the OP's situation was "unsolvable".  You keep trying to claim someone said that, but that's just not true.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[SharpeXB]

15 hours ago, LucShep said:

the reality is that the sort of machine that the newest DCS 2.9x version requires to be absolutely stutter free still does not exhist.

^

25 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

no one at any point in this entire thread has said the OP's situation was "unsolvable".

[kksnowbear]

And for the umpteenth time, you are apparently unable to distinguish between helping to improve the OPs situation, and "completely eliminating" stutters.

Seriously...what part of this do you not get? Mother of pearl...wow.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, kksnowbear said:

And for the umpteenth time, you are apparently unable to distinguish between helping to improve the OPs situation, and "completely eliminating" stutters.

Solving the OPs problem should indeed mean eliminating stutters not just lessening them. You both keep implying that’s not possible. But it is. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Nightdare]

@tedcrowley18

 

The 4060ti already isn't the best suited for card for 4k, and that's when running in a system of the same generation, now couple that with pretty dated hardware and a pretty demanding game and one is bound to run into performance issues

 

You're gonna have to choke your fidelity pretty hard to improve that stuttering, to try and keep the GPU from handing off any overspill to the rest of the system

(and even then, your system might have to struggle with some work the GPU simply doesn't handle)

[kksnowbear]

33 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Solving the OPs problem should indeed mean eliminating stutters not just lessening them. You both keep implying that’s not possible. But it is. 

Not in reality it's not.

And certainly not with the setup the OP currently has.

[SharpeXB]

12 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Not in reality it's not.

Nearly everyone who posts about a stuttering problem in the game performance bugs section started out with their system or game working well prior to their trouble. What does that tell you? It means their game was not stuttering prior. 
So common sense should tell you possible to run this game without problems. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by SharpeXB