How to randomize column's composition and arrangement?

[joker62]

Please,

can someone help me?

I'd like to randomize column's composition and arrangement:

during my mission I wish encounter, along a road, one enemy column, without know its composition.

 

So, I've created 4 columns along same road, and I've named its as encol1, encol2, ...

Their composition is:

encol1: 2 tanks, 4 trucks, 2 apcs; encol2: 1 apc, 2 trucks, 4 tanks, 1 apc; .... and so.

My idea is that only one column for time appears along the road, and I don't know its composition.

I've tried with triggers, but I'm unable to find right way to do this.

Please, CAN SOMEONE HELP ME?

 

ED, PLEASE, CAN YOU IMPROVE THIS FEATURE IN THE FUTURE, MAKING RANDOMIZE MORE EASY TO DO?

I think this feature greately will improve suspence and involvement in the missions.

 

thanks in advance for any help and tips.

best regards. antonio

[DMarkwick]

This is a good request IMO, the main thing I don't like about the editor (which is otherwise excellent), is that battle vagaries aside, you get exactly what you authored.

 

Now, that's probably what most authors want, however personally speaking I'd like to replay my own missions over & over, and never know quite what I'm going to be up against, or where. Or even when.

 

So, to add my name to the above request, I'd like an editor inclusion for units & waypoints that include:

Probability of existence (percentage per unit, with the leader deciding on whether there's even a group).

Randomisation of placement (simple radius value on leader).

Time bracketing (to allow for random waiting periods etc).

 

I know from my experience with VBS2/ArmA that these features add a tremendous amount of uncertainty into the battlefield, which, unless you're playing someone else's mission for the first time, you don't experience right now in DCS. Not knowing the exact makeup of the enemy represents a lot of gameplay IMO :)

Edited May 15, 2009 by DMarkwick

[Groove]

I see Captain CAPSLOCK and his Shift-Crew visited the thread topic. I edited it for you ;)

[EagleEye]

...Captain CAPSLOCK and his Shift-Crew...

:megalol:

[Chelco]

Now, that's probably what most authors want, however personally speaking I'd like to replay my own missions over & over, and never know quite what I'm going to be up against, or where. Or even when.

 

So, to add my name to the above request, I'd like an editor inclusion for units & waypoints that include:

Probability of existence (percentage per unit, with the leader deciding on whether there's even a group).

Randomisation of placement (simple radius value on leader).

Time bracketing (to allow for random waiting periods etc).

 

I know from my experience with VBS2/ArmA that these features add a tremendous amount of uncertainty into the battlefield, which, unless you're playing someone else's mission for the first time, you don't experience right now in DCS. Not knowing the exact makeup of the enemy represents a lot of gameplay IMO :)

 

Kinko that.

 

The other day I was messing around with the mission files and the position of the troops is located in a file that can be edited with Notepad++. It looks to me that somebody with programming talent could write a small app that randomizes some of the positions.

 

Cheers,

[Chelco]

Ah, forgot this:

 

The ideal mission editor would have all the virtues of the ones of ArmA and Steel Beasts ProPE.

 

Cheers,

[DMarkwick]

Kinko that.

 

The other day I was messing around with the mission files and the position of the troops is located in a file that can be edited with Notepad++. It looks to me that somebody with programming talent could write a small app that randomizes some of the positions.

 

It could be done but you run the risk of inappropriate placement, having land units placed in a lake or offshore or something :) better to have the editor have it as a user choice IMO. Plus the sim engine itself is the thing that actually randomises these events (otherwise you'd need to run the randomizer on the mission file every time you wanted a new scenario) so it would need to be set in the editor, but implemented in the sim engine.

[Topgun505]

Kinko that.

 

Column length: (drop down with # of units)

Column type: Support (trucks, fuel), AA, Armored, Mechanized Inf, Mixed

 

You can do the same thing with larger units as well. Armored companies, battalions, etc.

 

You could also have the computer randomly take away some units from a column or unit to simulate previous battle losses by the unit so you never know exactly how many vehicles you are going to run in to.

[Chelco]

It could be done but you run the risk of inappropriate placement, having land units placed in a lake or offshore or something :) better to have the editor have it as a user choice IMO. Plus the sim engine itself is the thing that actually randomises these events (otherwise you'd need to run the randomizer on the mission file every time you wanted a new scenario) so it would need to be set in the editor, but implemented in the sim engine.

 

Points well taken.

 

I'm talking something around the lines of a random mission generator (was that the name of the LockOn's random mission generator?). You run the little program, the program generates a mission file and then you load this random mission from DCS BS's UI.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love a well-built mission with the current editor. Boy, there are some masterpieces out there! But sometimes I crave hunting into the unpredictable. Just knowing that a couple of Shilkas are out there somewhere and that I have to kill or be killed would be enough. Beer and pretzels type of thing.

 

To avoid the placement of units in crazy starting positions, the programmer could limit the eligible positions with relative ease. The map is always the same and those un-eligible places for placement of ground units are relatively the same all the time.

 

Cheers,

[slug88]

Joker, read over the 'practical exercise' that starts on page 81 of the GUI manual. It walks you through creating an example mission, including how to randomize force composition. Most, if not all, of the functions requested in this thread can already be enacted within the current mission editor with creative use of random triggers.

[Dusty Rhodes]

Another way to do this is build several convoys. Say 5 convoys and mix and match their composition. Then give each convoy a 20% of showing up in the mission. That would mean that you would get at least one convoy to show up and you wouldn't know which one it was. Simple solution that requires a little work but should fit the bill for what you want to do.

[Jack McCoy]

Your probability calculations are not accurate, if I may say so.

 

If they have 80% chance of not showing up, they could ALL not show up. Or they could all show up.

[Dusty Rhodes]

5 column @20% chance equals 100% is covered so you could get one or two or maybe none. It isjust a technique he could try was all i was imparting.

[DMarkwick]

My math might be wrong, but I calculate that the odds of 5 columns each with an 80% chance of existence all NOT existing together is 0.032% :)

 

I can't help the feeling though that the odds will be much higher :D

[Jack McCoy]

That would be 32% chance nothing shows up.

[Duke49th]

It could be done but you run the risk of inappropriate placement, having land units placed in a lake or offshore or something :) better to have the editor have it as a user choice IMO. Plus the sim engine itself is the thing that actually randomises these events (otherwise you'd need to run the randomizer on the mission file every time you wanted a new scenario) so it would need to be set in the editor, but implemented in the sim engine.

 

Maybe Silola(The DAC 2.0 dude) from Mapfact can help out:D

[DMarkwick]

That would be 32% chance nothing shows up.

 

Umm... if only one column has a 20% chance that none turn up, I doubt this figure for all 5 :)

[DMarkwick]

Maybe Silola(The DAC 2.0 dude) from Mapfact can help out:D

 

That would be sweetness beyond our worth :D

[Dusty Rhodes]

I must have worded my statement wrong. Set each column with a 20% chance OF SHOWING UP. That is 5 columns, each with a 20% chance of showing up.

[Frederf]

0.2 ^ 5 = 0.00032

 

Given 5 items each with an independent 80% chance of showing up, here are the probabilities for how many columns are present:

 

0 column: 0.032%

1 column: 0.64%

2 column: 5.12%

3 column: 20.48%

4 column: 40.96%

5 column: 32.768%

[Dusty Rhodes]

My posts indicate 20% chance of showing up not 80%.

[Jack McCoy]

Yes, I'm aware, 20, not 80. DMarkwick changed to figures or did not notice that I wrote 20% show ==> 80% NOT show.

 

Anyway, since you're all experts on probability, I give up. My knowledge is only based on 3 different stats/probs courses, two in the context of my Mechanical Enginering degree.

[Jack McCoy]

3+3 = 6, yes, but I asked for 2+2

 

Umm... if only one column has a 20% chance that none turn up, I doubt this figure for all 5 :)

You're right and you're wrong.

 

I used the figures as given by Dusty...

[Dusty Rhodes]

Sheesh Jack, no sense in getting butt hurt over this.

[Panzertard]

Or one could argue that a function like this would solve the problem:

1. Create 5 separate groups

2. set each to 20% chance for appearance

3. use the new "uber" command to create a "random group object-type", include all 5 flights as members

4. set the new uber the RandomGroup.Min/Max-properties to "minimum 1 appears, maximum 3"

4b. or/and the RandomGroup.Start/End-properties "earliest 20 mins after start, latest 40 mins after start"

 

Now you would be in control, and we all can stay as friends ;)

Edited May 16, 2009 by Panzertard