Rudder input problem with Force Feedback Pedals

[Triggerhappy69]

I have tested the Force Feedback Rudder pedals for a day now. And it seems to me like there is some kind of conflict between the FFB Joystick and the FFB Pedals (FFB Wheel)?

 

The joystick works fine untill I connect the Pedals, but then I lose both the trim function function on the joystick and the pedals always center when I hit the Trim button?

 

It's driving me crazy..!

[m0jo]

This might be related : http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=568722&postcount=15, try setting "ForceFeedbackEnabled" to true in the Producer.dfg

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Well since you have the only FFB rudder pedals I know of is it possible the game isn't set up to accept them? Given the scope of your build maybe ED can give some insight?

[CyBerkut]

Well, I know that the sim will work with FFB on the rudder input when there is no FFB joystick on the joystick X axis. When I reassigned the Saitek Cyborg Evo Force's X axis to the rudder axis to see if it would hold trim, it worked. IIRC, I still had the Y axis of the joystick as the Cyclic's Y axis.

 

Trigger, do you have an extra FFB joystick that you can temporarily substitute for your pit's cyclic control? It would be a useful troubleshooting technique to see if the conflict remains or disappears.

 

If you do the above substitution and the problem still occurs, then I would suggest hooking your pit's cyclic control back up, and then substitute the temporary FFB joystick's X Axis for the pit's FFB rudder pedals.

 

If the conflicted behavior exists no matter which input the temporary FFB joystick gets substituted for, then there appears to be a problem with DCS:BS supporting dual FFB controls, which will almost certainly require E.D.'s attention to rectify. (Could be a config / .LUA file, or it might be program code in the executable)

 

If the conflicted behavior exists for one substitution, but not the other, then you can see which of your pit's controllers is the problem.

[Triggerhappy69]

Good point mate..

 

I initially tested the FFB on the cyclic X axis to, and got the same positive result as you. And then i tested on the rudder axis, again I seem to remember it worked for the rudder as well (but I might have been a little enthusiastic at that point.. LoL).

 

 

I have another MS Sidewinder FFB joystick, and a Logitech FFB joystick that is in working order.

 

And I see your point about a more methodical approach to the problem.

I'll replace the cyclic stick with the Logitech FFB first and make a note the result. And then the identical MS Sidewinder FFB.

And post the result here..

 

.... It's probably me though..

[CyBerkut]

Trigger, it's been a few days... How are you making out, brother?

[Triggerhappy69]

.. I've hit a snag that's delayed the testing.. When connecting the FFB stick (after testing it a hundred times) mounted in the Front Main Panel, it had some serious "ghost switch" problems. So I tried to sort that out first.

And then when I tried starting Blackshark I got this strange warning about a LUA Stack problem? And the d*amn simulator wouldn't start at all?

 

Thanx to Panzertard I figured out the warning thing, and now I I am ready to test the pedals. But now the time is 0300 in the morning.. I'll get some sleep and start bright and "early" tomorrow...

[CyBerkut]

I see from your posts over in your pit thread that you have been busy. I remain amazed at how productive you are!

 

I'm glad you have the .lua stack problem behind you. The ghost switch problem sounds like that could be a persistent nuisance. Hopefully you'll find a clear cause for it so that it is gone for good.

[CAT_101st]

BS has a known issue with the switchs. If I can dig up the fix for you I will send a PM letting you know. I had the same problem. I would get difrent switchs fliping for no aparent reason. It may not be your fault.

[Chibawang]

If you do find it, post it here instead of in a private message. I'm sure it would benefit quite a few people, myself included.

[Swetrekki]

hmmm perhaps a more Russian solution to future pedals would be better, less complicated that is..

 

I just thought of this and im not trying to correct anyone or anything like that. But why do you need FFB, wouldn't it be enough to lock the pedals at will (from the game or from a button, like forinstance making use of that magnetic brake you got from that electronics store trigger ?

Build it so that you can lock the pedals in position and release them with a push of the trim button?

 

Am i missing a part of the force feed back aspect here or wouldn't that work?

 

//swetrekki

[Triggerhappy69]

Not really.. And I did think of this before building the FFB pedals.

 

The only issue I could think of is the centerpoint value that is returned to the simulator. I have no idea weather this value is the same always in the simulator and is changed by the electronics in the pedals? or if the "new" centerpoint value changes in the Simulator also when I trim?

 

So just to be sure I went for FFB..

 

Another issue is finding a magnetic or electromechanic brake that both hold the force of the pedals with close to zero RPM's on the axle, and holds the return spring force under such conditions?

I haven't found one yet? But if you find it please let me know. Because it would be a much simpler setup..

 

I'm whatching the F1 race from earlier today (Monaco) right now. And as soon as it's finished I'll go downstairs to test the pedals..

All day today has gone in finishing the Collective mechanics and making it 100% tight.. And now IT IS..!

 

Ps. And boy does it feel good...!

[Swetrekki]

Well since i don't actually own a copy of the game yet (still waiting for them to release it in stores here in Sweden, *wink wink ED ) i cant confirm anything with any tests, but it seems unlikely that the game recalibrate the electronics in the pedals.

But it should be pretty easy to test i would emagine (please note that i don't have the software and might be "full of shit" in saying that it would be "easy") by just rigging up a leo card and some trim resistors and see how it acts ingame?

 

And as far as a magnetic brake solution, just have a half circle shaped plate run through a slot with a electro magnet clamping down brake disks on to the plate (like a disc brake system on a car). as long as you have enough leverage you could probably stand on the pedal with out beeing able to move it.

 

Please dont get me wrong Trigger, I really hope you get your setup working because it is just so cool!!!, but it might be worth exploring...

[Triggerhappy69]

Got the Sim up and running finally..! I had to un-install all graphic card drivers, physicly delete all the old GForce folders from my C Drive. And re-install the new ATI drivers. But now it works..! Yahoo..!

 

I have tested the pedals now, and IT WORKS (as far as I can see..?)..!

 

I still have some issues with the not so precise centering of the Driving Force electronics. But with a new magnet holder for the hall effect sensor, and a new stronger force feedback motor with belt drives instead of gears I hope it will be precise enough..!

 

And if it is the electronics that simply just is not good enough, I will just switch it for another FFB Controller..?

 

I have one of "Stonehard"s Fanatec Speedster3 FFB Wheels at home. Maybe It will do the job..!?

 

But as far as the question weather DCS BS will work with FFB Pedals or not. I can conclude that IT DOES WORK WITH FFB PEDALS..!

 

So go build a set for yourselves...

 

 

 

 

 

.. why are you still here..?

[CyBerkut]

Great news! Thanks for the update. Now try to have some fun with your gear, Trigger!

[JG14_Smil]

FF just holds the controls in the position you release the trim button at, no? Same as a non-centering control would(?), if so, it is not really needed.

 

I am finallizing my plans for controls and it will depend on the proposed changes to the trim command as posted in an earlier patch update. I have to admit, I am even getting to like the current default trim setup :)

[Triggerhappy69]

Are you going the electro mechanical route to solving this..?

 

If so please keep me posted on your development.. Because If this works it is a much more simple and accurate and precise sollution..

[Swetrekki]

cool trigger, i was kind of in to smil's thinking, but once again you proved that it was possible.

 

good job

[zaelu]

So how is it working?

 

Sorry to raise this topic after so long but I was just testing "the concept" the other day using a Logitech Momo steering wheel for rudder and the Force Feedback trim isn't working on it. It was re-centering when I pushed trim button.

[40ozcasualty]

So how is it working?

 

Sorry to raise this topic after so long but I was just testing "the concept" the other day using a Logitech Momo steering wheel for rudder and the Force Feedback trim isn't working on it. It was re-centering when I pushed trim button.

 

I'm also interested in converting a FF steering wheel (Logitech g27) to rudder pedals, but I can't get any FF effects in game. The only effect I can get is from using a centering force in the controller software for the steering wheel, but no direct input from the game. If I turn off the centering forces in the controller settings, the wheel is just limp. Any clues on getting the force effects through the steering wheel?

[sydost]

Has anyone got FFB pedals to work lately in DCS? I have one surplus Logitech DFP wheel and thought that it might be used for FFB pedals. Tried a quick test with MSFFB2 as cyclic in Ka-50 and the DFP as rudder but all force effects I got out of the wheel was a centering spring effect. Also I tried to bind the wheel to cyclic but no force effects there either.

[CyBerkut]

As far as I know, you still can not have both an FFB Stick and FFB pedals working simultaneously.

 

To make a working Force Trim system for DCS helicoptors, it appears that you're going to need to use solenoids or electromagnets for at least one, or the other controller (if you want both controllers to lock into the trimmed positions).