General FFB Base talks (Was: What are FFB sticks available? (Was FFB or MFSSB?))

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

Another idea for the strong number as a marketing value. With a base providing up to a certain figure, potentially it could be used for many different setups, tje key point here being the lever. With the base in the floor you have more lever than attached to a seat or very close to your table height. A base with stronger motor can cope with those different setups.

[Dogmanbird]

I've ordered some bits to have a go at DIYing something ffb. Was hoping to buy Propeler's terrific gimbal parts (looks beautifully and cleverly designed) though I believe there's a shortage of bits (at the time of posting this) and pre cutting where I am is ridiculously expensive. So while I have some spare time I've started making a messy zero-prestige flux core welded up version from a couple of strips of Bunnings 5mm thick flat bar (which is actually not so flat). Just waiting on the rest of the electronics to arrive. If this works out, I'll try building some ffb pedals. It's kind of exciting    

some if it is just tacked together at the moment. Just wanted to make sure it's smooth and nothing binds first. The gimbal parts works out to about $65 with bearings and screws / nuts / bolts etc. I think the entire build with Propeler's nice software will be about $550 aud, though keeping in mind I've spent a good part of 3 days working on just the gimbal, but it's been fun

 

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Edited January 15 by Dogmanbird

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

OT kinda, since WinWing has nothing to say, I am staying in the Rhino queue, it says about 33 days away.

[Dogmanbird]

@VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

buying another? did you part with your Moza base?

[Dogmanbird]

just about right to go. the rest of the parts can't come soon enough

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[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

5 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

@VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

buying another? did you part with your Moza base?

I am keeping my Moza. Don’t you have any idea! 

[Dogmanbird]

 

did you ever make your follow up review?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Not yet, pending... thank you for your patience.

[propeler]

On 1/16/2025 at 11:52 AM, Dogmanbird said:

just about right to go. the rest of the parts can't come soon enough

 

IT will be a powerfull monster

[Dogmanbird]

i'm hoping too. looking forward to experimenting with it . 

Thank you for sharing the build information you have on your project page. It's terrific when folk share info / help each other

i thought i was going to need to spend about $100 for a pair of motors with 30mm stators, but found some cheaper so the total build cost might now only be about $490 aud ( i added $10 because i wore out my grinder flap disk )

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Edited January 17 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

the frame is just to test if things will line up, but the plan is to mount the gimbal as low as possible, allowing a few mm's to clear the belt/pulley and then mount the motors at the back, keeping all the weight low. I understand this layout probably won't appeal to everyone, but I'd like to keep a long gooseneck / extension without raising everything in my setup and I have the space available under my seat

The VKB gimbal pivot point sits about 10mm lower (at yellow lines). Losing only a cm off my existing 330mm extensions is okay with me.

 

 

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Edited January 19 by Dogmanbird

[propeler]

Do you plann to use it table top? 

[ebabil]

Will there be other ffb sticks other than upcoming winwing Taurus? Like Virpil 

[Dogmanbird]

4 hours ago, propeler said:

Do you plann to use it table top? 

could attach a hand to it and use it for arm wrestling?

[MAXsenna]

could attach a hand to it and use it for arm wrestling?

AWS - Arm Wrestling Simulator

"Workout while you play"

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Dogmanbird]

4 hours ago, ebabil said:

Will there be other ffb sticks other than upcoming winwing Taurus? Like Virpil 

Have you guys heard any recent info on the winwing taurus? I thought it might be just a winwing kneejerk reaction to moza releasing something?

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

7 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

AWS - Arm Wrestling Simulator

"Workout while you play"
 

Tagline: Why not both?^TM

Micro-review:

The AB9 base shakes the most when the helicopter goes in or out of transition, it is quite intense (video idea), but I personally would not suggest to use it as a vibrator or something similar.

F-16 "mode", which transforms the stick into a less expensive, powered MFSSB. The trick is the stick moves itself to the opposite direction to where you force the stick to while still registering your movement. Since my base is not yet on the side, I have tried this one. It is not that stiff, I am told it is a profile thing, but it is like hand wrestling with a pole on the ground which can slight move.

Edited January 19 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Aapje]

14 hours ago, ebabil said:

Will there be other ffb sticks other than upcoming winwing Taurus? Like Virpil 

https://www.facebook.com/VIRPILControls/posts/pfbid0EFtmuLszHQxEdi61tRJRPmM3e9L9VKA3Upo7CyVdForG3h9JhaoJVyYPgsBLhxpnl

But I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.

9 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

Have you guys heard any recent info on the winwing taurus? I thought it might be just a winwing kneejerk reaction to moza releasing something?

Last news is that they are still in the patent approval process.

It's not just a kneejerk, since they showed off the hardware already, during the same event where Moza showed theirs. However, Winwing seemed to have been behind on the software side (perhaps because they didn't steal the Rhino code).

[MAXsenna]

20 minutes ago, Aapje said:

Last news is that they are still in the patent approval process.

That's interesting... 

[Dogmanbird]

ahh, ok thanks. Do you know if it was it a working version of the ffb base?

Pretty sure some photos of the AB9 internals show one of the motors physically mounted to one of the gimbal axis, which would simplify the design, but likely limit motor size they can use. I wonder if wwing have done the same, as they generally go the most basic design path looking at their other gimbals? 

[Aapje]

Winwing claim to have a stronger motor providing 20+Nm, so there doesn't appear to be a motor limitation compared to the Moza/Rhino.

They showed off their Cyber Taurus base in June last year at FSExpo, but it was running a fixed movement program, and could not be handled or be used to control a game. So I would say that this indicates that their software lacked even the most basic features.

Potentially, what they showed was merely a prototype to test the ability for the computer to control the stick and for the device to handle the forces. That still leaves a lot of work to provide DirectFFB support, telemetry support, anti-cogging, and support for a working grip on top of the base.

That prototype might also not have been production-ready, as it can take a lot of work to go from a hand-made prototype that more or less works after a lot of manual fudging, to a mass-producible device that is optimized for efficient manufacture, limited material costs, reliability, a low defect rate, etc.

It's pretty much impossible to know the true state of the device and the all-important software for it, with no actual demonstrations since that very basic one half a year ago.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

12 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

ahh, ok thanks. Do you know if it was it a working version of the ffb base?

Pretty sure some photos of the AB9 internals show one of the motors physically mounted to one of the gimbal axis, which would simplify the design, but likely limit motor size they can use. I wonder if wwing have done the same, as they generally go the most basic design path looking at their other gimbals? 

Eye-opening! But I don't mind "weaker" motor, for I am flying for fun, not for exercise.

[Dogmanbird]

i'm not looking for exercise either, just wanting to use a 30cm+ extension for some realism, while not over powering the base (hopefully)

[Shortcut]

This is the best look at inside the Moza AB9 I can find starts at 9:12.  Seems fairly well built.

Temps at about 16:50

 

 

 

Edited January 22 by Shortcut

[Dogmanbird]

btw, when I say overpowering the base, I was meaning that the base not having enough strength to overcome the long levering, rather than the issue of over heating.

Thanks Shortcut. I hadn't seen that one.