[BUG]ACLS does not work with FFB Sticks

[JupiterJoe]

 Bug: ACLS broken with FFB stick

 If not 100%, how often out of 10: 10

 How to reproduce/ description:

 Step1: Activate ACLS

 Step2: Press A/P ref when indicated to do so.

 Step3:  Take a swim.

 DCS Version: 2.9.17.11733

 System Specs:

Processor    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz   3.70 GHz
Installed RAM    64.0 GB
Device ID    36C95E96-CEE8-4C82-AF93-9730F33AFFDB
Product ID    00330-80000-00000-AA169
System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Windows 11 Pro

NVDIA GEFORCE RTX 3070

Peripherals: 

Joystick: Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2

Throttle: Virpil Controls T-50 CM3

Headtracker: Third-party Track IR

Mission File: Any involving Carrier recovery and use of the ACLS.

Track:

 

Saved TrackACLS.trk

Edited June 26 by JupiterJoe

[JupiterJoe]

Here is a secondary but related problem, where my FFB breaks whilst taxiing through an AI wingman's wake in this mission:

 

Saved TrackFFBBreak.trk

Edited February 6 by JupiterJoe

[JupiterJoe]

A tertiary problem would be ALT HOLD.  Above about 15k feet wing sweep greater than 40 degrees causes ALT HOLD to fail.  Above 30k wing sweep greater than 30 degrees causes failure.  Not sure if it's my stick or all FFB sticks.  It's as if the reduction in lift is not compensated for.  It also fails to hold you level if you exceed a 10 degree bank angle. All of this works flawlessly with a non-ffb stick.

Edited June 28 by JupiterJoe

[Shaman]

I have to admit that since Sep 2024 when I got FBB (VPForce base) I am having issues with autopilot altitude hold (not every time though) and ACLS too (pretty much all the time, despite being very careful with glideslope capture and in perfect trim).

[RustBelt]

One thing I found early on with my Sidewinder FFB2 was sometimes it seemed like the autopilot didn’t completely shut off. I’d get weird behavior but only sometimes. 

[JupiterJoe]

So, you guys are confirming that ACLS doesn't currently work with FFB and you've had intermittent issues?  

I'm trying to establish if there is a common fault with ffb so we can present our findings to HB, or my problems are exclusive to my aged ffb stick.

I don't want to fork out for an expensive new ffb stick only to find there are inherent problems that HB are in no particular hurry to fix.

Basically I'm looking for feedback (pun intended) from any FFB users out there. Thanks.

Edited February 13 by JupiterJoe

[RustBelt]

I’m not confirming CURRENTLY because I haven't bothered with ANY aspect of the autopilot in well over a year. But there have always been FFB “weirdsies” in the past. Especially with the 20+ year old legacy sticks.

I will say without any hesitation, fork out for a new FFB stick. Just because HB has been off and on with having one to work with, shouldn’t mean you shouldn’t enjoy it waiting on them. 
 

It makes EVERYTHING better, when enough people have them HB and everyone else will have no excuse not to put more priority on FFB development.

Edited February 13 by RustBelt

[Biggus]

@JupiterJoeMy AP is fine, with some tweaking.  Moza with a Hornet stick with a 75mm extension, previously a Warthog stick on a 200mm extension.  I think we talked a bit about my experience in the Moza thread, but I'll add a bit more after some more stick time.  I do occasionally see some pitch-up with alt-hold engaged if I bank aggressively.  If I disengage alt-hold and then bank, I don't get nearly as much of a pitch-up and I am normally turning with roughly zero vertical speed so re-engaging the alt-hold is easy.  The caveat is that I haven't tried this with normal gain on the gimbal, because I found many of the AP functions somewhat unreliable until I turned the gain up to roughly 160%.  But for 98% of my AP usage, it's rock solid and I have zero complaints. 

ACLS is quite broken though.  Things seem to work well up until roughly a mile out, and then it goes from being steady as a rock to unpredictable and somewhat suicidal.

There are some other oddities like the behavior when you spawn into a Tomcat after being in some other modules, where the stick is limp.  The way that hopping from the back seat into the front results in an immediate violent pitch up is quite inconvenient.  There are probably other issues I haven't touched on.  I know HB are aware of most or all of the problems and I'm confident that they'll eventually fix them.  There are several long threads on the HB discord.

But in normal usage it's a fantastic implementation.

I know you're after more feedback from others, so maybe ask the same question on the VPForce or Moza discords, because you'll probably get a much better response there.

[JupiterJoe]

12 hours ago, Biggus said:

@JupiterJoeThe caveat is that I haven't tried this with normal gain on the gimbal, because I found many of the AP functions somewhat unreliable until I turned the gain up to roughly 160%.  But for 98% of my AP usage, it's rock solid and I have zero complaints. 

ACLS is quite broken though.  Things seem to work well up until roughly a mile out, and then it goes from being steady as a rock to unpredictable and somewhat suicidal.

Thank you so much for this @Biggus.  This gain adjustment of which you speak is bespoke software that comes with the Moza?  I understand the Phantom has some sliders related to autopilot breakout strength and whatnot.  Be nice to see something similar for the Tomcat.  It's good to hear that HB are aware.  I'll have to try and get into Discord.  Thanks again.

EDIT: Found it.  Thanks.

null

Edited February 14 by JupiterJoe

[Biggus]

I'd expect most modern FFB bases to have some gain adjustment.  From what I remember of the VPForce rhino, you can alter it in software and possibly also on a potentiometer.  The Phantom has some gain adjustment in it's DCS settings which aren't available in the Tomcat as of today, so I generally alter that via DCS and the Tomcat I just adjust via sliders in the Moza software.

[RustBelt]

Also, just to remind folks. Don’t set strength to 100% because reasons. Set it to 99%. I think it only sees 2 of the 3 digits. So 100 either gives you 10 or 00 but decidedly not 100.

[JupiterJoe]

On 2/15/2025 at 12:25 AM, RustBelt said:

Also, just to remind folks. Don’t set strength to 100% because reasons. Set it to 99%. I think it only sees 2 of the 3 digits. So 100 either gives you 10 or 00 but decidedly not 100.

I did not know this 

[Shaman]

It is definitely a bug. Even if you want to take control at last mile, you basically run out of trim range... there's no way to pull up after ACLS is disabled at last mile and you wish to save the airplane.

[JupiterJoe]

Well, according to Discord it's been known about since April 2023.  So I guess a fix is in the pipeline.

Edited February 17 by JupiterJoe

[JupiterJoe]

This morning I found a recent (June 2025) post regarding this issue on Discord.  The chap said he deleted any keyboard trim bindings and it fixed his issue with the aircraft nosediving the moment the NWS button is pushed/the system is activated.  Well, I found that rudder trim was still bound to my keyboard and deleted those.  I just tried ALCS and was delighted to discover that for the first time it didn't immediately try and nose dive me into the water.   Sadly it was still unable to successfully land though, as within two miles of carrier the aircraft wanders up and down (it does stay on track), as if hunting for the signal/trying to remain on glideslope and ultimately crashes into the sea short of the Carrier:

26/06/2025 15:00 EDIT:  Second attempt did the nosedive thing right off the bat again   Perhaps it's connected to the fact iceman trims all the way nose down when you jump in the back seat, which in turn may be connected to aircraft spawning with the stick trimmed all the way forward as with a cold/dark state (the stick is trimmed forward IRL, to ease pilot access).

Please note that warning light (no.11) is illuminated:

 

 

 

Edited June 28 by JupiterJoe

[PanosI]

I almost lost my mind with ACLS before I find this thread. 50 tries, 50 crashes.

I disabled the FFB and ACLS with the first try.

MOZA AB9 user here.

[JupiterJoe]

Confirmation that HB are aware of this issue, so you'll be glad to hear I can stfu about this for a while 

Edited July 2 by JupiterJoe