Is OpenXR toolkit still necessary?

[slughead]

How did I miss that? 

[sleighzy]

2 minutes ago, slughead said:

How did I miss that? 

Especially as how you wrote the go-to handbook on setting up ReShade with OpenXR

[slughead]

One of those days, I guess. Too much going on at the same time!

[FatCap]

3 hours ago, sleighzy said:

You have the ReShade OpenXR api layer installed. Remove this and try again. There are known file access issues with this. What version of ReShade do you have installed? Can you also drop your ReShade.log file from the bin and/or bin-mt folders of your DCS installation for both this issue occurring (no OXRTK) and when it's fine (OXTK). Probably best to raise a new post with this information like Slugmouse said so that this current thread doesn’t get polluted. Really interesting that OXRTK seems to have an effect on this.

Thanks @sleighzy I'd previously uninstalled reshade (can't recollect the version 6.something) - but will repeat the process and try again together with logs

[sleighzy]

45 minutes ago, FatCap said:

Thanks @sleighzy I'd previously uninstalled reshade (can't recollect the version 6.something) - but will repeat the process and try again together with logs

Yeah may not have uninstalled everything correctly. ReShade 6.0 definitely had problems. Recommend using this tool and just untick the ReShade box so it's completely disabled in VR so you know for sure: https://github.com/fredemmott/OpenXR-API-Layers-GUI

 

[FatCap]

22 minutes ago, sleighzy said:

Yeah may not have uninstalled everything correctly. ReShade 6.0 definitely had problems. Recommend using this tool and just untick the ReShade box so it's completely disabled in VR so you know for sure: https://github.com/fredemmott/OpenXR-API-Layers-GUI

 

Thanks @sleighzy will give it ago - if no joy will create a new thread as you and @slughead suggested

[FatCap]

Hi @slughead & @sleighzy 

Sorry for the slow update work and family have kept me grounded for a while. 

Turns out Reshade was the culprit, disabling in the XR layers tool did the trick.

Thanks guys for your help, much appreciated.

[slughead]

I'm glad you're up and running again. Perhaps you chose the wrong configuration when you installed Reshade. Maybe you should try uninstalling it and then installing it again, following my guide.

 

[FupDuck]

On 11/21/2024 at 1:39 PM, Flyingfish said:

Try using openxr toolkit with turbo mode enabled. I get stutters unless I use turbo mode

Exact same experience here. I decided to try QVFR again as well, just for the turbo mode, since open XR toolkit is no longer supported. But it didn't seem to do anything. The framerate didn't drop much compared to OpenXR toolkit turbo mode, but there was a lot of micro stutter. It's like it wasn't even on, even though the log said it was.  When I uninstalled QVFR and re-enabled OpenXR toolkit, it was smooth as butter. 

[sleighzy]

2 minutes ago, FupDuck said:

Exact same experience here. I decided to try QVFR again as well, just for the turbo mode, since open XR toolkit is no longer supported. But it didn't seem to do anything. The framerate didn't drop much compared to OpenXR toolkit turbo mode, but there was a lot of micro stutter. It's like it wasn't even on, even though the log said it was.  When I uninstalled QVFR and re-enabled OpenXR toolkit, it was smooth as butter. 

Given the way that Quad Views works (it's generating 4 views each frame vs 2) it is doing significantly more things than just the turbo mode. This puts more load on your CPU hence why you may be getting micro-stutters depending on where your bottleneck is.

[slughead]

You can use QVFR for just the turbo mode (and it fixes the Quest / DCS hang if you remove the headset while using the META link).

In the QVFR settings file, just create an excluded app section for DCS. This will turn off the quad view generation and keep turbo mode. (Written from memory - check the wiki for actual changes required to the settings file).

Edited January 2 by slughead

[sleighzy]

18 minutes ago, slughead said:

You can use QVFR fir just the turbo mode (and fixes the Quest / DCS hang if you take off the headset while using NETA link).

Just make an excluded app section for DCS in the QVFR settings file. That turns off the quad view generation and keeps turbo mode.

Good to know, thanks for that.

[sleighzy]

23 minutes ago, slughead said:

You can use QVFR fir just the turbo mode (and fixes the Quest / DCS hang if you take off the headset while using NETA link).

Just make an excluded app section for DCS in the QVFR settings file. That turns off the quad view generation and keeps turbo mode.

@slughead Noticed this reference that it doesn't work with DCS, don't know why, I'll test myself and see if this is still a thing:

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki/Advanced-Configuration

Quote

unadvertise is a value 0 or 1, where 1 will disable quad views. This option is meant to be used within an [app:] or [exe:] section. Note that this option does not work with DCS World.

 

[slughead]

Oh. It used to work. I’ve nit used QVFR for quite some time. Perhaps it worked before the app changed from DCS to DCS World.

[sleighzy]

7 minutes ago, slughead said:

Oh. It used to work. I’ve nit used QVFR for quite some time. Perhaps it worked before the app changed from DCS to DCS World.

I wondered the same thing, they changed the name back again though so I'll keep you posted as to whether or not this has resolved that.

[Qcumber]

8 hours ago, sleighzy said:

@slughead Noticed this reference that it doesn't work with DCS, don't know why, I'll test myself and see if this is still a thing:

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki/Advanced-Configuration

 

I think you are misquoting this. It refers to the "unadvertise" function.

"unadvertise is a value 0 or 1, where 1 will disable quad views. This option is meant to be used within an [app:] or [exe:] section. Note that this option does not work with DCS World."

Turbo mode is identical to the one in OXRTK and can be enabled in QVFR and in OXRTK. It works fine in DCS. 

I use QVFR and OXRTK for easy adjustments of sharpening, toggling turbo mode on/off and to add post processing adjustments. 

[sleighzy]

35 minutes ago, Qcumber said:

I think you are misquoting this. It refers to the "unadvertise" function.

"unadvertise is a value 0 or 1, where 1 will disable quad views. This option is meant to be used within an [app:] or [exe:] section. Note that this option does not work with DCS World."

Turbo mode is identical to the one in OXRTK and can be enabled in QVFR and in OXRTK. It works fine in DCS. 

I use QVFR and OXRTK for easy adjustments of sharpening, toggling turbo mode on/off and to add post processing adjustments. 

Not sure I’m following…? The recent conversation above was about still using the Quad-Views-Foveated API layer for turbo mode vs OpenXR Toolkit, but disabling the usage of the quad views functionality in that api layer. 

Edited January 2 by sleighzy

[sleighzy]

1 hour ago, Qcumber said:

QVFR and OXRTK for easy adjustments of sharpening, toggling turbo mode on/off

Does that mean you’re sharpening in both tools, or have the CAS sharpening turned off in QVF and use the OXRTK for that?

[slughead]

I know you didn't ask me, but I turn off sharpening in DCS and OXRTK and just do it in Virtual Desktop. It's one less thing for the PC side to do, and there's a slight gain in frame time headroom.

[Qcumber]

30 minutes ago, sleighzy said:

Does that mean you’re sharpening in both tools, or have the CAS sharpening turned off in QVF and use the OXRTK for that?

I use very little sharpening. Just a small amount of CAS in OXRTK. 

[FupDuck]

23 hours ago, slughead said:

You can use QVFR for just the turbo mode (and it fixes the Quest / DCS hang if you remove the headset while using the META link).

In the QVFR settings file, just create an excluded app section for DCS. This will turn off the quad view generation and keep turbo mode. (Written from memory - check the wiki for actual changes required to the settings file).

Holy <profanity>, really? This might be exactly what I'm looking for! My game still runs best using OpenXR toolkit, but I know it's not supported anymore, so an alternative that just gives me turbo mode would be perfect! Thank you!

 

Edit: I should have read to the end of the page before posting I guess! Well, I think I'll still give this a try next time I reinstall QVFR!

Edited January 2 by FupDuck

[slughead]

3 minutes ago, FupDuck said:

Holy <profanity>, really? This might be exactly what I'm looking for! My game still runs best using OpenXR toolkit, but I know it's not supported anymore, so an alternative that just gives me turbo mode would be perfect! Thank you!

Not supported doesn’t mean it doesn’t still work. QVFR is probably no longer supported either as the developer has said he doesn’t have the license (I think) to build  OpenXR Toolkit anymore which I expect applies to QVFR too. Maybe he could clarify.

[mbucchia]

None of my tools are supported. Supported means = I monitor the community for bugs and requests and take actions for them.

Many new apps do not work with OpenXR Toolkit and I have no plans to fix it.

But AFAICT there are no known issues with DCS at this time for either OpenXR Toolkit and QVFR. 

To be clear, Turbo Mode is a feature that bypasses poor frame management that nearly all vendors are victim of (except PimaxXR/VDXR for obvious reasons). Things like Meta not delivering proper PCVR support for several years now as they are focused exclusively on standalone, MR and do not care the least for PCVR. 

I believe the Turbo Mode feature _should_ work through QVFR even if Quad Views is disabled via the DCS settings. As for the "unadvertise" it never worked with DCS because DCS never actually followed the proper OpenXR usage for detecting quad views platform support.

[slughead]

Unadvertise for DCS always worked for me.

[mbucchia]

8 hours ago, slughead said:

Unadvertise for DCS always worked for me.

Maybe they changed something after 2.9? It definitely did not work in 2023 and beginning of 2024.

DCS uses (used?) the assumption that if the XR_VARJO_quad_views extension was present, it would use quad views, while the proper check is to use xrEnumerateViewConfiguration(). It is impossible for an API layer to mask an extension.

 

Here was my original report of the issue to ED:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/317990-openxr-toolkit-with-new-dcs-release-not-working/#findComment-5138959

This used to cause a significant headache for Varjo users (even before QVFR for other headsets was a thing) and a special software had to be developed to mask the OpenXR extension in order to use OpenXR Toolkit. 

Edited January 3 by mbucchia