Tired of being spoilered in 100% of my missions.

[theIRIEone]

Hi,

I took a timeout from DCS and after returning a few weeks ago i immediately got reminded on one of the main reasons i stopped playing (simming, flying, call it whatever) in the first place:
I love the sim, but i hate the game... Specially the fact that whenever i build a mission, i know 100% of the things that will happen during the flight. There are 0 surprises going on, the only surprise i'll get once in a while is "great, now xyz doesn't even work"..

I know some people are working with Moose etc to make interceptors spawn dynamically, my question is: Would there be something similar for ground units / AA and such as well?

At this point i got the hunch that it's faster for me to learn all this stuff rather than waiting for the "dynamic campaign" any longer....


Hints, tips and pointers are much appreciated, other than "just join a squad" (still have some ppl to fly with from old squad and not wanting the huge commitment of joining an active one rn)

thx.

[Lace]

I play a lot of my own SP content. The best tool for replay-ability and randomness is setting random flags to activate groups, so you are never sure exactly which groups will be active on any single run through.  For example, build several groups of ground defences and interceptors set as 'Late Activation'.  You can then use a random flag to 'Group Activate' 1/3 of the placed groups.  It will not be truly random (i.e. you still manually created and placed them), but it can keep you guessing, and the activated combination of AAA, SHORAD, fixed SAM, CAP and intercept aircraft will be unlikely to repeat.  I sometimes put an easy/hard F10 radio option, which increases the number of groups which activate.

I also place a lot of single unit search or search & track ground SAM RADARS without any launchers.  This simulates a more 'target rich' environment, and prevents you from easily identifying the one or two 'active' sites which you placed.  I also reduce the engagement ranges on some of the groups so they don't make themselves known at maximum range, meaning you are more likely to be surprised when a 'dummy' site suddenly shoots at you.

It is also good practice to not place waypoints directly on top of mobile targets, as in reality this information will not be accurate or current.  This adds a bit of difficulty in acquiring targets during the run in, or when lining up via the TGP.  I  don't use any scripting or 3rd party software, everything is 100% core mission editor.

Also, make sure you click the 'Hidden on Planner', 'Hidden on MFD', 'Hidden on Map' checkboxes too, and keep dots/labels off otherwise you will be picking up targets from a very unrealistic distance.

A good plan for A2A type engagements is to create a mission with no AWACS or GCI assets, meaning you have to scan for the intercepting fighters, which depending on the platform you are flying can be quite a challenge, given RADAR limitations.  Especially when combined with the random groups, so you aren't even really sure where to start looking.

Edit - Another one I just remembered is using zones to activate defensive sites, so their RADARS don't come online until you are within their MEZ.

Edited October 21 by Lace
Another suggestion.

[theIRIEone]

59 minutes ago, Lace said:

I play a lot of my own SP content. The best tool for replay-ability and randomness is setting random flags to activate groups, so you are never sure exactly which groups will be active on any single run through.  For example, build several groups of ground defences and interceptors set as 'Late Activation'.  You can then use a random flag to 'Group Activate' 1/3 of the placed groups.  It will not be truly random (i.e. you still manually created and placed them), but it can keep you guessing, and the activated combination of AAA, SHORAD, fixed SAM, CAP and intercept aircraft will be unlikely to repeat.  I sometimes put an easy/hard F10 radio option, which increases the number of groups which activate.

I also place a lot of single unit search or search & track ground SAM RADARS without any launchers.  This simulates a more 'target rich' environment, and prevents you from easily identifying the one or two 'active' sites which you placed.  I also reduce the engagement ranges on some of the groups so they don't make themselves known at maximum range, meaning you are more likely to be surprised when a 'dummy' site suddenly shoots at you.

It is also good practice to not place waypoints directly on top of mobile targets, as in reality this information will not be accurate or current.  This adds a bit of difficulty in acquiring targets during the run in, or when lining up via the TGP.  I  don't use any scripting or 3rd party software, everything is 100% core mission editor.

Also, make sure you click the 'Hidden on Planner', 'Hidden on MFD', 'Hidden on Map' checkboxes too, and keep dots/labels off otherwise you will be picking up targets from a very unrealistic distance.

A good plan for A2A type engagements is to create a mission with no AWACS or GCI assets, meaning you have to scan for the intercepting fighters, which depending on the platform you are flying can be quite a challenge, given RADAR limitations.  Especially when combined with the random groups, so you aren't even really sure where to start looking.

Edit - Another one I just remembered is using zones to activate defensive sites, so their RADARS don't come online until you are within their MEZ.

 

Thank you for this detailed explanation, i think these are exactly the points / hints i didn't know i needed. I really like what you are describing here.

Obviously nothing will ever be completely random as we still place the defenses manually as you mentioned, but combining everything you wrote should be more than sufficient to help me achieve what i realistically want to achieve. Sounds like it's a quite a bit of extra work initially tbh, but given the replayability of such a .miz i feel it's surely worth it.

I'll probably keep some of the threat rings for stationary defenses active on the AMPCD because imho it helps increase the immersion (given partially correct INTEL) and i tend to keep everything regarding F10 map / labels etc switched off anyways, but other than these few threat rings i'll stick to following your advice closely for now.

While i stumbled over "random flags" a few times, i never tried using them - to be fair i'm not the most experienced with the ME but at least know how to spawn stuff via F10 menu etc, which is great for training purpose, not so much for missions themselves.

Instead of learning Moose and potentially various other scripts, i might as well take a look into random flags first, 100%.
Still need to wrap my head around the concept of how to determine 1/X active randomly via triggers/Flags, but i think (hope) with a piece of paper and some basic math i'll be able to figure that one out.

Thanks again, i'll dive into random flags and then start building a fresh .miz.

[Lace]

2 minutes ago, theIRIEone said:

I'll probably keep some of the threat rings for stationary defenses active on the AMPCD because imho it helps increase the immersion (given partially correct INTEL) and i tend to keep everything regarding F10 map / labels etc switched off anyways, but other than these few threat rings i'll stick to following your advice closely for now.
 

Regarding this.  You can aways place a 'dummy' (invisible) search RADAR to generate the threat ring, then the actual position one of three options close by, depending on the nature of the site - some being more mobile than others.  This adds in a bit of variety, plus the reality that the best intel is not always 100% correct or up to date.

It is a little more work, but given the replay-ability a worthwhile time investment IMHO.

I'm far from a ME expert, and these random flags and trigger are pretty basic to get a handle on.

[theIRIEone]

18 minutes ago, Lace said:

Regarding this.  You can aways place a 'dummy' (invisible) search RADAR to generate the threat ring, then the actual position one of three options close by, depending on the nature of the site - some being more mobile than others.  This adds in a bit of variety, plus the reality that the best intel is not always 100% correct or up to date.

It is a little more work, but given the replay-ability a worthwhile time investment IMHO.

I'm far from a ME expert, and these random flags and trigger are pretty basic to get a handle on.

I see.. That surely sounds like a great option.
Just to be clear: If i switch on "INVISIBLE" in the unit's options, the threat ring would still be generated?

Funny how my brain bends itself thinking if i set a unit to "Late Activation" the ring would be visible from the start but somehow that wouldn't be the case when the unit is set to "invisible".

I'll just test these things out, thanks again.

Much appreciated for sure.

[kira_mikamy]

i also make mission, my rules is:

be the gamemaster in my mission
be the pilot in other friends\community mission
 

[HILOK]

i am surprised nobody suggested briefing room or liberation campaign. briefing room is probably exactly what you are looking for: you decide the aircraft, type of mission and other conditions, and BR randomly does the rest incl briefing. liberation campaign simulates a dynamic campaign, and it does that really beautifully. you can find both on github (and youtube) 

[metzger]

i am surprised nobody suggested briefing room or liberation campaign. briefing room is probably exactly what you are looking for: you decide the aircraft, type of mission and other conditions, and BR randomly does the rest incl briefing. liberation campaign simulates a dynamic campaign, and it does that really beautifully. you can find both on github (and youtube) 

What is unknown or randomly placed in liberation missions ? Everything is precisely marked on the map and sits statically there until you go kill it.

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk

[Mistermann]

@theIRIEone, @Lace gave some good tips above.  I'll throw in my $0.02 here.  Randomness is something you can do 100% from the ME without using any external scripting or LUA magic.  You will have to get creative with trigger logic, but the good news is you can do it all with triggers.  It might not be "pretty" for the traditional LUA coders out there, but it gets the job done for those of us who aren't versed in modern programming environments.

At a high level, you can create different sets of late activated groups and associate random probabilities that these will activate.  For instance maybe you're creating a SEAD mission against mobile targets.  In this example you could create 4 different mobile SAM groups as late activated.  At mission start (or whenever you desire) have a trigger set a random value between 1-4 in a flag called "Mobile_SAM_Spawn" or whatever name you want.  Then in another trigger activate group1 if the value of "Mobile_SAM_Spawn" equals 1 and repeat for the other 3 groups accordingly.  Now you have a mission where you don't know what's out there with a 1 in 4 chance (25%) that the mission plays out the way it did the last time your played.

Depending on your needs you can mix up groups and probabilities and get a pretty diverse and "random" set of targets.  Yes, as the mission creator you know the possibilities of things that might show up, but you don't know until you get there.  I have some missions that have more that 20 different groups that can spawn in using this approach.

I am the mission custodian for my small group of MP friends and this is the approach I take to keep missions fresh and feeling new even after months of playing the same mission.  

Edited November 16 by Mistermann

[sirrah]

On 11/16/2024 at 3:10 PM, Mistermann said:

@theIRIEone, @Lace gave some good tips above.  I'll throw in my $0.02 here.  Randomness is something you can do 100% from the ME without using any external scripting or LUA magic.  You will have to get creative with trigger logic, but the good news is you can do it all with triggers.  It might not be "pretty" for the traditional LUA coders out there, but it gets the job done for those of us who aren't versed in modern programming environments.

At a high level, you can create different sets of late activated groups and associate random probabilities that these will activate.  For instance maybe you're creating a SEAD mission against mobile targets.  In this example you could create 4 different mobile SAM groups as late activated.  At mission start (or whenever you desire) have a trigger set a random value between 1-4 in a flag called "Mobile_SAM_Spawn" or whatever name you want.  Then in another trigger activate group1 if the value of "Mobile_SAM_Spawn" equals 1 and repeat for the other 3 groups accordingly.  Now you have a mission where you don't know what's out there with a 1 in 4 chance (25%) that the mission plays out the way it did the last time your played.

Depending on your needs you can mix up groups and probabilities and get a pretty diverse and "random" set of targets.  Yes, as the mission creator you know the possibilities of things that might show up, but you don't know until you get there.  I have some missions that have more that 20 different groups that can spawn in using this approach.

I am the mission custodian for my small group of MP friends and this is the approach I take to keep missions fresh and feeling new even after months of playing the same mission.  

You are right, creating random event is possible without scripting, but I've used this feature in some of my missions and from my experience it can get seriously tricky and complicated quite quickly.

It would help a lot (especially to those with less ME skills) if we for instance at least had a "spawn probability" percentage field, for late activation units.

[Mistermann]

4 hours ago, sirrah said:

It would help a lot (especially to those with less ME skills) if we for instance at least had a "spawn probability" percentage field, for late activation units.

Well, there is "sorta" this feature.  This may work under certain use cases.

The value shown here is a percentage chance that the group will exist at mission start. Its not a late activated unit, but might work to help randomize things.  I don't use it because there's a chance ALL units spawn or NONE so I prefer to control it with triggers.  Yes, it can get complex.  I find using names for variables instead of numbers makes the triggers much easier to read and debug.  

This % chance to appear seems to be one of those ME mysteries that many don't know about.  Heck, I didn't know about it for years.