Year-adjusted models for maps - BIG WISH

[Molnija1985]

Hello,

first sorry guys for my broken English, i must use google translator. 

I have special wish on maps. Would it be possible to implement temporal adjustment on maps? Currently, maps such as Sinai or Afghanistan are "unusable" e.g. for the years 1970 and 1980 - most maps are oriented for the present. So it seems quite ridiculous that already in 1972 houses in Egypt had photovoltaic panels, air conditioners in houses and modern cars. At the same time, the adjustments would not have to be so difficult, e.g. only models for a specific year would be uploaded when the map is loaded. 

For example, the house model for the current year includes a photovoltaic panel, air conditioning, if I enter the year 1985, the same model is loaded but without photovoltaic panels and air conditioning. Also, the cars would be customized for the given year, that would contain about several models.

It's a huge detail, but I believe it's quite important. Especially for those who fly helicopters.

best regards...

[draconus]

Can be either huge task or just a simple nice feature depending on how deep you want to go with details. Even simpler to do if it was designed this way from the start - but I'm afraid it wasn't.

Even if these details are removed and less, different cars are running you'd still see unrealistic big cities with skyscrapers, highways, airports and many other facilities that weren't there at the time. That's why they decided to rather make maps and objects catered for one period of time.

Edited November 25, 2024 by draconus

[Molnija1985]

Sorry I use google translate....

I understand that, but the current maps are basically only from the WW2 and from the present, which is a shame. But even so, if the technology of loading objects on the map were modified a little, the solution would be possible. Skyscrapers and big cities could be solved by entering e.g. 1970, so some buildings (skyscrapers, malls, modern buildings) will be replaced by other (older) buildings. Practically the two worlds would be WW2 and the present day with a range of 1946 to the present. It's a shame it doesn't work that way. I am afraid that if Vietnam comes out, it will be oriented to the present instead of decades back, which is exactly the Vietnam - which everyone knows. That's why I don't buy any new maps anymore because I'm interested in the cold war...

[Mr_sukebe]

My assumption is that yes it "could" be done, to the point where you could have building and scenery objects given say a year of build, and when that happens, that version of the building/scenery item could change.

However, what you'd talking about is potentially a LOT more work/effort/cost.

Even the underlying terrain can be changed by people, who might for example in the Gulf, build those new islands.

Using the Gulf map, just think about how much Dubai has changed over the last 50 years.  To be accurate, would you be happy using a "snapshot" of how the city looked in say 1960, 1970, 1980 etc, or would you want it more granular?  Is the data even available?  Might not be for some remote places.

I've no idea of actual development costs for a map, but imagine that say half the cost is to place the roads, scenery, buildings etc.  If you were to then re-look at the Gulf map, and asked for 3 time periods, that "might" result in doubling the costs of the consumer for that map.  Would you pay for it?

 

[Molnija1985]

I understand, the problem is that the current technology does not allow this at all, since the objects on the map are fixed, it is only possible to add new objects, without modifying the original objects. Rather, it is an incentive for the future. A spherical world is planned. They will probably follow a similar path as MS with realtime rendering of objects. And here it would be worth defining unique ID objects on the map (of course not all of them) and with simple conditions, if the year = 1980, then replace such and such objects with other objects.  We practically don't talk about anything other than modeling. DCS is not an MS flight simulator (and never will be - I hope), I don't think anyone at DCS cares about "this bridge wasn't standing in 1983" and "this building wasn't built in 1979". But what bothers people (and I believe not only me) is that if I want to make the Egypt - Israel conflict in the 70s, it looks quite funny on the current map. Sorry for google translate English - I guess that's understandable.

[draconus]

9 minutes ago, Molnija1985 said:

I understand, the problem is that the current technology does not allow this at all, since the objects on the map are fixed, it is only possible to add new objects, without modifying the original objects.

All is possible, it just takes time, money and will. There are no such plans currently but it's ok, you made a wish. Like already said, depending on the scope and realism it can be either very simple or a huge task, even for future maps.

12 minutes ago, Molnija1985 said:

Sorry for google translate English - I guess that's understandable.

It's fine but repeating that is starting to be annoying

[Molnija1985]

One of the simplest suggestions could be the following…

Sinai is a good example:

- a graphic modeler who designed objects (houses) made a house that contains photovoltaic panels and air conditioning. So the same house could be used only without photovoltaic panels and air conditioning - simple removal of objects from the model, minimal work and costs. 
- When selecting a map in the map editor, the era is also selected from the combobox (let's not complicate it with a year), e.g. Cold War (1949 - 1989), or the Present.
- if i choose cold war the objects are loaded eg. houses without photovoltaic panels and air conditioning, cars will have other older models, older panel houses will appear instead of modern skyscrapers, even the mentioned islands in Dubai can be solved - they will simply be removed
- the only thing I see the most work in are airports and objects at airports... that would probably need to be remodeled to a large extent

I think it can be solved quite elegantly, yes the prices of the maps would be higher, but probably not by much (since it will mostly be about deleting objects from already created objects).

Maybe as an incentive for future maps...

Edited November 25, 2024 by Molnija1985

[draconus]

5 minutes ago, Molnija1985 said:

even the mentioned islands in Dubai can be solved - they will simply be removed

Objects are one thing but here we're talking about the map mesh change. Depending on how it is developed it can be simple (locally redone) or not (like new mesh file and data).

The year of the mission is enough - no need for additional box selection.

[bies]

On 11/24/2024 at 8:28 PM, Molnija1985 said:

most maps are oriented for the present

Agree. Maps being modeled as "present day" (instead of actual warzones from specific period) - when we have no present day modules or AI assets is the biggest atmosphere killer in DCS. And the reason why DCS sometimes feels more like a laboratory and not like combat simulators from the past.

Present day will never be possible to model in commercial simulation without omitting nearly all real life systems, avionics, assets, weapons etc. which are strictly classified.

Edited November 29, 2024 by bies

[Mr_sukebe]

+1 on the modelling of incoming maps using present day as a basis.

For one thing, the proposed "spherical earth" will potentially replace all current day specific maps.

If theatre maps were made for more appropriate time periods, in the way that Normandy is focused on 1944 and the planned WW2 version of Marianas, that would be preferable from my perspective as would give them a purpose post the arrival of spherical earth.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

For one thing, the proposed "spherical earth" will potentially replace all current day specific maps.

They're not going to replace anything since the global map won't (and can't) have the same level of details and interactivity as current DLC maps.