Help!

[DCoffey]

I have a I7-10700, quest 3, 64gb ram at 2666 ddr4, 4tb gen 3 ssd. 
was getting 36fps (72hz in vr) very smooth

 

decided to build a new pc I7-14700k, 64gb with 5600 ddr5, 2tb gen 4 m.2

same gpu RTX4070ti 

so faster cpu, faster chipset, faster ram, faster ssd. Dcs now reports its “cpu bound”

 

what am I missing?

[speed-of-heat]

a 14700k given that you are swapping MB and RAM is likely not a great choice today , not terrible but a better choice would be a 7800x3D be a better over all choice

 

in terms of raw gaming and therefore DCS peformance

also CPU bound is the default state for DCS...  if it is yellow and not red 

[speed-of-heat]

also make sure you have turned on XMP in BIOS and you also have turned on whatever overclocking feature set you have

 

[DCoffey]

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

a 14700k given that you are swapping MB and RAM is likely not a great choice today , not terrible but a better choice would be a 7800x3D be a better over all choice

 

in terms of raw gaming and therefore DCS peformance

also CPU bound is the default state for DCS...  if it is yellow and not red 

The normal with the old pc was “gpu bound” so being that everything but the gpu changed for the better I didn’t expect to see “cpu bound “

 

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

a 14700k given that you are swapping MB and RAM is likely not a great choice today , not terrible but a better choice would be a 7800x3D be a better over all choice

 

in terms of raw gaming and therefore DCS peformance

also CPU bound is the default state for DCS...  if it is yellow and not red 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-14700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-7800X3D/4152vsm2081998

 

I7 on average is 17% better performance 

[speed-of-heat]

1 hour ago, DCoffey said:

The normal with the old pc was “gpu bound” so being that everything but the gpu changed for the better I didn’t expect to see “cpu bound “

 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-14700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-7800X3D/4152vsm2081998

 

I7 on average is 17% better performance 

yeah ... not so much on actual independent tests, cpu userbenchmark is notoriously biased try this RIP Intel: AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D CPU Review & Benchmarks vs. 7800X3D, 285K, 14900K, & More | GamersNexus which whilst aimed at the 9800x3d it has data for the 7800x3d and the 14700k as well ... similar results from other independent reviews 

[Hiob]

2 hours ago, DCoffey said:

The normal with the old pc was “gpu bound” so being that everything but the gpu changed for the better I didn’t expect to see “cpu bound “

 

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-14700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-7800X3D/4152vsm2081998

 

I7 on average is 17% better performance 

userbenchmark is the worst possible source for unbiased realistic data.

If that was the basis for your decision, you took an arrow to the knee unfortunately. 
 

Regarding your original post - there is no way, with this setup, you weren't cpu bound unless, the GPU was artificially limited in the first place (fps limit in the GPU driver e.g.) or you were playing with extremly high settings that you subsequently changed (maybe unintentionally) for your nwe system
 

Even though the Intel wasn't the best possible choice for what you wanted, it is still way more powerful than you're old one.

If the performance got worse, there is something not quite right with the settings or drivers yet.

[DCoffey]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

userbenchmark is the worst possible source for unbiased realistic data.

If that was the basis for your decision, you took an arrow to the knee unfortunately. 
 

Regarding your original post - there is no way, with this setup, you weren't cpu bound unless, the GPU was artificially limited in the first place (fps limit in the GPU driver e.g.) or you were playing with extremly high settings that you subsequently changed (maybe unintentionally) for your nwe system
 

Even though the Intel wasn't the best possible choice for what you wanted, it is still way more powerful than you're old one.

If the performance got worse, there is something not quite right with the settings or drivers yet.

Yep, my old system 99% of the time displayed "GPU Bound"

 

It apperas the old system was not capable of pushing enough data to the GPU. As I am getting this new one dialed in I have cranked up new settings that I had off or low on the slider. and am still getting butter smooth framerates and it appears the GPU is just stretching its legs, if I am reading the data correctly its running a little under 70% utilization. Thats at marianas.

I am very pleasently suprised at these results thus far.

 

Thanks to everyone for your replies!

[Hiob]

1 minute ago, DCoffey said:

Yep, my old system 99% of the time displayed "GPU Bound"

 

It apperas the old system was not capable of pushing enough data to the GPU.

This is self-contradictory. The latter is the textbook definition of "CPU-bound".
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to lecture you or disregard your claims, but currently I can't make much sense out of the premise. Your old system should have reported CPU-bound.

[DCoffey]

1 hour ago, Hiob said:

This is self-contradictory. The latter is the textbook definition of "CPU-bound".
Don't get me wrong. I don't want to lecture you or disregard your claims, but currently I can't make much sense out of the premise. Your old system should have reported CPU-bound.

Yeah I get it, doesn't make sense but it was what it was.  I wonder if low power could have had the card downgrade its performance. Old PC had a 500 watt PSU, and I know the old I7-10700 used about 215 under load and the RTX4070Ti uses 285 watts underload, just those two devices would have put the PSU at its maximum. That could explain the results.

 

I am a very happer camper with this new setup.

[Hiob]

21 minutes ago, DCoffey said:

 

I am a very happer camper with this new setup.

That’s all that matters! 

[kksnowbear]

6 hours ago, DCoffey said:

I wonder if low power could have had the card downgrade its performance. Old PC had a 500 watt PSU, and I know the old I7-10700 used about 215 under load and the RTX4070Ti uses 285 watts underload, just those two devices would have put the PSU at its maximum. That could explain the results.

Well...no.

As was stated above, I don't want to lecture you or anything of the sort at all...but an underpowered PSU wouldn't exhibit the kind of behavior you've indicated.  The GPU has no inherent awareness of how much power the PSU can provide, and therefore it's not going to reduce it's capability/performance in any sort of "low power" mode.

The GPU will simply draw whatever current it wants, and if/when that's more than the PSU can provide, something will go wrong.  (The newest GPUs/PSUs have some ability to avoid this, but it is still very imperfect; there is no 'intelligent' communication between a PSU and the components it powers).

What the machine very likely will do at that point is lock up and/or crash frequently, and more so when it's hotter.

I am also glad to hear you're happy with the new setup - good for you   But it's probably better that we keep in mind accurate ideas about how these things actually do work, so as not to confuse/misdiagnose or mislead others who will at some point see this.

I hope that makes sense, and wish you the best of luck.

Edited December 2, 2024 by kksnowbear

[DCoffey]

On 12/2/2024 at 12:54 PM, kksnowbear said:

Well...no.

As was stated above, I don't want to lecture you or anything of the sort at all...but an underpowered PSU wouldn't exhibit the kind of behavior you've indicated.  The GPU has no inherent awareness of how much power the PSU can provide, and therefore it's not going to reduce it's capability/performance in any sort of "low power" mode.

The GPU will simply draw whatever current it wants, and if/when that's more than the PSU can provide, something will go wrong.  (The newest GPUs/PSUs have some ability to avoid this, but it is still very imperfect; there is no 'intelligent' communication between a PSU and the components it powers).

What the machine very likely will do at that point is lock up and/or crash frequently, and more so when it's hotter.

I am also glad to hear you're happy with the new setup - good for you   But it's probably better that we keep in mind accurate ideas about how these things actually do work, so as not to confuse/misdiagnose or mislead others who will at some point see this.

I hope that makes sense, and wish you the best of luck.

Are you being condescending to me? 

My machine exhibited out of norm symptoms by being 99% GPU bound, all new hardware except GPU and now its CPU bound (which is expected) and the GPU is running its little heart out. I don't know why it was GPU bound so I was throwing darts at possibilities. I am now finished with this problem as it nolonger concerns me. My new setup is running like a scalded dog, that I7-14700k is friggin awesome. I just experimented with setting it to 90hz (45FPS per eye) and its smooth as butter. I am not touching anything for a while (next update most likely)

 

Thanks for everyones assistance and advice with this. 

 

[kksnowbear]

14 hours ago, DCoffey said:

Are you being condescending to me? 

My machine exhibited out of norm symptoms by being 99% GPU bound, all new hardware except GPU and now its CPU bound (which is expected) and the GPU is running its little heart out. I don't know why it was GPU bound so I was throwing darts at possibilities. I am now finished with this problem as it nolonger concerns me. My new setup is running like a scalded dog, that I7-14700k is friggin awesome. I just experimented with setting it to 90hz (45FPS per eye) and its smooth as butter. I am not touching anything for a while (next update most likely)

 

Thanks for everyones assistance and advice with this. 

 

Nope, and I said "I don't want to lecture you or anything of the sort at all." as well as that I wished you the best of luck.  Sorry if my comments were taken the wrong way.

As I explained, my concern is for accurate understanding of the way this stuff behaves, for both present and any potential future readers.

Power supplies (at present) simply do not work as you speculated. That's just not the way it works, and I feel it's important to avoid misunderstandings.  Factually, that has caused far worse problems than anyone having their feelings hurt.  I've read, fairly shocked, where one "expert" on this site recommended (and linked) a power supply adapter cable that was not compatible with the OP's PSU.  Had the OP followed this advice, it would have undoubtedly fried his motherboard.  I know this because I've had to repair a few machines where this happened due to people not knowing what they were doing.  (Incidentally, the cable in the example I cited above wasn't even the problem, after all....so a single uninformed opinion yielded not only an incorrect diagnosis, but a potentially disastrous 'solution')

I realize you were just 'throwing darts' but it's important to keep in mind that people read this stuff - sometimes years after it was posted - and walk away with some pretty incredible ideas.  Thus, I believe it's important to take the time to offer accurate explanations, to discourage inaccurate conclusions/ideas.

You wouldn't believe some of the messes I've cleaned up, all avoidable if it weren't for some guy's advice on Reddit, etc.   Rather than just sit around wishing I could change this to help people, I prefer to take a more active part in trying to prevent the problems.

Again, sorry if that offends.

Edited December 4, 2024 by kksnowbear

[BitMaster]

KKSnowbear,

good point and valid. Keep the information quality at a high level and avoid or even fight misunderstandings before they spread and wreck havoc on someones mainboard.

I do the same stupid job as KKS and I have seen the same mess over years, it's a tragedy that could have been avoided in almost all cases if there had been more understanding.