NVIDIA 5000 series and DLSS4 for VR

[Hippo]

On 1/13/2025 at 4:01 AM, nikoel said:

Okay, I’ll bite.

This is why it’s called CPU and GPU pairing

Within DCS, it’s not difficult to create scenarios where one is CPU-limited or GPU-limited, even with the same hardware. It depends on the scene being rendered. For instance, if we were to use a carrier deck population template, you would have seen a massive performance uplift by upgrading from the 8700K to your 13K. However, in scenarios where you are GPU-bottlenecked like a 1:1 knife fight, getting a faster processor only results in very minor gains. It all depends on what is causing the bottleneck

For people with identical hardware, the experience can vary greatly depending on what they are doing within DCS and this is why opinions vary so much

There are tools like QuadViews that can shift some of the load from the GPU to the CPU. This is one of the reasons why it’s incorrect to say it “gives you more performance.” It provides more performance in GPU-limited scenarios but reduces performance (or performance headroom) in CPU-limited scenarios. Or Increases CPU frametimes and decreases GPU frametimes

Now, regarding your question about where you’re going wrong: this brings me to the topic of resolution. Pimax’s new headsets are indeed high resolution, but it’s unwise nuts not to run them with foveated rendering as it brings the GPU to it's knees

This means the total number of pixels being rendered is far lower than you might think, and the uplift in resolution of the headset is much greater than the actual number of pixels the GPU has to render. This is solely because of QuadViews. It allows you to significantly reduce the number of peripheral pixels without noticing a difference. It's not small either, depending on the end user's taste, the difference is over 70% fewer pixels rendered for roughly the same picture quality.

No difference because our eyes perceive sharpness and focus within roughly a 3° cone, so the periphery pixels matter far less than the ones inside that 3 degree arc. You can test this for yourself with the Quest Pro in your signature. Eye tracking allows you to lower GPU overhead at the cost of slightly higher CPU frametimes. I run mine on a 4090 with all settings dialed to the moon with the use of QuadViews, something I could not do without it. It's comes at a cost when I am on a fully populated super carrier deck and this is where performance can suffer

So because of my CPU bias created by QuadViews, compared to someone who is running QP at 5.5kx2.8k, I am running a lower overall resolution, a sharper higher resolution image within the zone that I can see, at higher overall settings at a cost of some stuttering where I am severely cpu limited (usually in that said super carrier in campaigns)

Finally, youre right to doubt the precision of frametime tools offered. if you’re looking for a proper utility to measure frametimes, check out Fred’s OpenXRFrameTools here
https://github.com/fredemmott/XRFrameTools

 

Sorry, but I'm back.  Everything you say is perfectly reasoned and sensible, but in the nicest possible way I'm going to ask you (or anyone else who feels so inclined) to put your money where your mouth is and show me some numbers:  system spec, DCS config, VR config.  Then tell me if you can hold 72 fps without drops in the attached mission (F18 low over Dubai, the a/c will set itselt up to follow a path within the first 10 seconds of the mission, so you don't have to do anything but look straight forward), just let the a/c fly itself until the end of the first turn.

My hardware specs are in in my sig.

For QVFR I am using the following settings:

# Common settings for all headsets (unless overriden below).
smoothen_focus_view_edges=0.2
sharpen_focus_view=0.7
turbo_mode=1

[Oculus]
peripheral_multiplier=0.4
focus_multiplier=1.1
horizontal_focus_section=0.25
vertical_focus_section=0.25

These are settings that in combination with DLAA give me visuals that I find acceptable (reduce shimmering in peripheral area, and don't introduce too much artifacting into the HMDs) and maximise performance.

My Quest Pro is set up like this:

My DCS settings are below.  My current system cannot hold 72 fps, but my previous system (see sig) could, just about.  It has to drop to ASW 36 fps at times as the GPU util hits 100% - I have tried to set things up so that with a graphically demanding mission such as this, my GPU utils stays just below 100%.

Even with QVFR, how are people holding high (no reprojection) frame rates with the much higher resolutions of newer headsets like the Crystal or (when it arrives) Crystal Super?

I realise that everything from my choice of test, to the way I'm setting things up, to my interpretation of the results could be all wrong and I'd be really grateful if anyone could suggest improvements.

Trying, and failing miserably, to get back on topic,  I don't think the 4090 -> 5090 30% bump we'll be getting will be enough for the high resolutions of the latest headsets (come on DCS VR reviewers, where are you?), and anything without eye-tracking, well forget it, imho.  Leaving as our only hope the improved DLSS?

Still, it's over 2x the perf of my 3080 Ti, so I might be tempted to do something very stupid on Jan 30th.

 

 

 

benchmark_01.miz

[nikoel]

I have a 4090 so no point going up against 3080

I appreciate how hard you’re trying

As of few hours ago and with the release of DLSS 4 we can now run DLSS performance with very little loss in visuals. Some have reported that it looks better than DLAA looked before. I still run DLAA and settings above DCS default maximum settings with use of mods 

My true advice to you would be download the DLL package. Enable Profile J. Activate DLSS. See for yourself 

If you’re now CPU limited (borderline likely in some scenarios but probably GPU will be holding you back in most) then you can deactivate eye tracking to gain back CPU frametimes

Also remember that some of us have gone to complete extremes of overclocking deactivating hundreds of background tasks and features to claw back every last FPS. Everything from automatic update checks, RGB, disk defragmentation schedule, one drive, copilot AI BS, every piece of background monitoring, XBOX and gaming services. Dont get me started on the new NVIDIA app and how if you’re not careful it can cost you 5%.

Anyway, On average I have around 55 services running in the background. CTRL+ALT+DEL and go to activity to see how many you’re running

Individually these tweaks might gain you 2-3FPS maybe. So many don’t bother. However claw back 2FPS here an other three there. You’re soon above 10 and that’s no joke 

You’re welcome to join VR4DCS discord and have a look at what others may have done to get an experience that you’re looking for

Also I will tell you straight up whilst my experience is pretty much locked above refresh rate I do get the occasional hitch here and there. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good and enjoyable 

Edited January 24 by nikoel

[Panzerlang]

2 hours ago, Hippo said:

Trying, and failing miserably, to get back on topic,  I don't think the 4090 -> 5090 30% bump we'll be getting will be enough for the high resolutions of the latest headsets (come on DCS VR reviewers, where are you?), and anything without eye-tracking, well forget it, imho.  Leaving as our only hope the improved DLSS?

 

I've said it elsewhere (after it was postulated by somebody else) but if there's a limit within the game itself regarding the ceiling on how hi-rez the in-game objects can actually be, there's a point where higher-rez monitors/VR panels can no longer offer further graphical improvement. So, Pimax Super, down-sample the image to where the OG Crystal is at and (in my case) use it for the higher FOV.
Will the 5090 cure the micro-stutters with my 13900k? No, I don't believe so. DCS maxes out the Main Thread, does it on the 9800X3D too. No matter what CPU is thrown at this game, it'll make use of the cycles. God knows at what point there would be enough headroom for a CPU to take a breath. And when one does finally come along for the current version of the game, it won't be current any more, ED will be flying us to frikkin' Mars. Lol.

After I'm long gone there'll most likely be desktop quantum PCs though, so it'll work out in the end. 

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, nikoel said:

Enable Profile J. Activate DLSS

How do you activate J? I can only see ABCDEFG in DLSSTweaks. 

Confirmed I am using 310.1.0.0.

[nikoel]

Download and replace the DLSS files inside the bin folder with the new version. OVGME advisable, but you do you boo

You need a slightly modified version of Nvidia Profile Inspector. If you trust me, here is my current version you can just skip to the last step. If you don't, create a CustomSettingNames.xml file inside the same folder as The Nvidia Profile Inspector

inside enter the following beside the other presets:

<CustomSettingValue>
<UserfriendlyName>Preset J</UserfriendlyName>
<HexValue>0x0000000A</HexValue>
</CustomSettingValue>

Then open Profile Inspector and under the global profile select J. (Don't worry if you have other games, if they don't have J they will use an other profile)

ProfileInspector.zip

Edited January 24 by nikoel

[LucShep]

For those accustomed with DLSS Tweaks (an old video tutorial here), you can keep using it for the new DLSS4 .DLL with transformer model (v310.1.0.0).
Just make sure to select force preset G. 
This is because, somehow, forcing preset G will actually make it utilize the J preset (aka "transformer"), which does not appear in DLSS Tweaks for selection.

Have to say, with a few settings changed (see image below, I also attach my .INI if you wish to try it), it seems this version of DLSS works great in Cyberpunk2077.
EDIT: actually, I'm noticing some shimmering in the foliage, whereas there is none with "preset C"  hmmmm...
(NOTE: haven't tested with DCS yet)
I'm very impressed. The image clarity is noticeably better, and inclusively in motion most of the smear is gone.
There's a tiny hit in performance, but then improvements are so good that it even allows decrease of one step to get back performance (from quality to balanced, etc).

dlsstweaks.ini

Edited January 24 by LucShep

[Qcumber]

2 hours ago, nikoel said:

Download and replace the DLSS files inside the bin folder with the new version. OVGME advisable, but you do you boo

You need a slightly modified version of Nvidia Profile Inspector. If you trust me, here is my current version you can just skip to the last step. If you don't, create a CustomSettingNames.xml file inside the same folder as The Nvidia Profile Inspector

inside enter the following beside the other presets:

<CustomSettingValue>
<UserfriendlyName>Preset J</UserfriendlyName>
<HexValue>0x0000000A</HexValue>
</CustomSettingValue>

Then open Profile Inspector and under the global profile select J. (Don't worry if you have other games, if they don't have J they will use an other profile)

ProfileInspector.zip 155.89 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks. This works great.

29 minutes ago, LucShep said:

For those accustomed with DLSS Tweaks, you can keep using that for the new DLSS .DLL with transformer model (v310.1.0.0).
Just make sure to select force preset G

A slightly easier option. 

In my initial testing this looks very good. Hardly any ghosting. 

 

[Qcumber]

The Mariannas Lagoon Island Patrol has been my test bed for DLSS. Previous to this release there was always horrible ghosting and smearing in the sky.That is now gone.

After testing a bit further I can see smearing when there is a busy background: zero flying low over Marianas trees. However, elsewhere no ghosting.

[Hippo]

On 1/24/2025 at 12:26 PM, nikoel said:

My true advice to you would be download the DLL package. Enable Profile J. Activate DLSS. See for yourself 

Thank you for the suggestion and for the rest of your reply.  I've tried it now and my first impressions are that yes it's better than dlss3, but that i'm not gaining enough performance over plain dlaa (anything below balanced still shows too much ghosting) to justify it - in particular i'm seeing some rather distracting artifacting with clouds, esp in the peripheral area even with balanced (probably also with quality - don't recall, but I suspect quality would invalidate any perf gains anyway).  I will be sticking with my settings above (and the dlss 3 dlls) for now.

On 1/24/2025 at 12:26 PM, nikoel said:

Also remember that some of us have gone to complete extremes of overclocking deactivating hundreds of background tasks and features to claw back every last FPS. Everything from automatic update checks, RGB, disk defragmentation schedule, one drive, copilot AI BS, every piece of background monitoring, XBOX and gaming services.

You have my admiration, but for me this stuff goes into the I'm too old for this sh1t category.

Edited January 25 by Hippo

[speed-of-heat]

Yep this new generation of DLL against Profile J, is the puppies privates

[NAM]

5 hours ago, Hippo said:

Thank you for the suggestion and for the rest of your reply.  I've tried it now and my first impressions are that yes it's better than dlss3, but that i'm not gaining enough performance over plain dlaa (anything below balanced still shows too much ghosting) to justify it - in particular i'm seeing some rather distracting artifacting with clouds, esp in the peripheral area even with balanced (probably also with quality - don't recall, but I suspect quality would invalidate any perf gains anyway).  I will be sticking with my settings above (and the dlss 3 dlls) for now.

You have my admiration, but for me this stuff goes into the I'm too old for this sh1t category.

There are various debloat tools/scripts can remove all the bloatwares in the windows 10/11.

This tools enable my 82 yrs father computer with only RTX 2080ti running smoothly ms2020

Although this should only be done on gaming computer.

[Hippo]

1 hour ago, NAM said:

This tools enable my 82 yrs father computer with only RTX 2080ti running smoothly ms2020

Which I presume you set up for him; because, with the greatest of respect, he's surely got better things to do.

As do I, even though I've still got some way to go before (if) I get to 82!

[NAM]

It took me only 30min, done one time two years ago. Otherwise msfs would not be playable for him.

All I suggested that with the tool, it is not that difficult as people think.

To setup Quadview is harder than use the debloat tool

[Youtch]

17 hours ago, NAM said:

There are various debloat tools/scripts can remove all the bloatwares in the windows 10/11.

Which tool have you been using?

[Qcumber]

DLSS 4 is definitely an improvement. Does anyone know if we are likely to see even better performance on 5000 series GPUs? Or will they just benefit from frame generation, which is not much use to use vr uses. 

[Aapje]

This video shows an enemy airplane disappearing when flying in front of the clouds. It seems like DLSS may remove a bit too much clutter sometimes:

 

 

[Blackhawk163]

I downloaded and tested this on my rig, and nope. Actually ran worse in quality than if I just kept it off. I’ll just run NIS and FFR in openxr tk and Quad views and still get a locked 70fps in most places with any dips being down to about 67fps in the more challenging areas. With the new dlss my rig struggled to maintain 64fps. 

 

At least it (new dlss) didn’t look so washed out and blurry. 

Edited January 27 by Blackhawk163

[Qcumber]

8 hours ago, Blackhawk163 said:

I downloaded and tested this on my rig, and nope. Actually ran worse in quality than if I just kept it off. I’ll just run NIS and FFR in openxr tk and Quad views and still get a locked 70fps in most places with any dips being down to about 67fps in the more challenging areas. With the new dlss my rig struggled to maintain 64fps. 

 

At least it (new dlss) didn’t look so washed out and blurry. 

I would suggest trying it again once the update is officially released with the final drivers. By the end of the week is suppose.