Sounds like Quest 3 is best value for DCS VR at the moment? (Current Reverb G2)

[CybrSlydr]

I keep going back and forth between head tracking and VR.  Head tracking is great because I can use my 42" OLED TV and the game looks great!  

But I hate having to move my head around my eyes.

VR is awesome, but the G2 sweet-spot and clarity are no match for a 4K OLED.

So, with Windows ditching MR, my G2 is effectively worthless and I need something new.

I did a bunch of reading on here and it seems the consensus is the Quest 3 is the way to go over the Pimax Crystal Light because it is much simpler in that it "just works" while there are numerous folks with Pimax horror stories getting their stuff to work.

The Bigscreen Beyond looks like something I'd really like due to the form factor and tech, but no eye tracking and requires lighthouses, which make it even more expensive.

Though it seems the Quest 3 isn't without it's problems either as folks say the headset is very uncomfortable to use and recommend getting a 3rd party face gasket.  Put the elite head strap, the physical USB cable, and a face gasket and you're pushing $1k for the Quest.

Varjo and Somnium are waaay out of the price range, especially when I only use VR for DCS.

So...  Am I right that with the compromises (no eye tracking or auto IPD, etc), the Quest 3 is still the best value for DCS VR?  (7800x3D, 4080 non-TI/Super, 64GB RAM)

Edited January 20 by CybrSlydr

[Tensorial_Architect]

(Current or past owner of the Rift, 8K, Index, Rift S, G1, G2, Aero, Quest Pro, Crystal, Crystal Light, and Quest 3)

Yes, you are right.

The Quest 3 is the best at, .... it just works, ... (for most people under most situations with the least snafus), ... for the $500 and under price range. My Crystal and Crystal Light have been less than fully reliable (build issues, software issues, customer service issues, etc ...) On paper, the Crystal Light seems like it beats the Quest 3 for seated PCVR, ... but in real-life, ... no.

You also don't need the $79 official Meta Quest Link data cable (you can use this). You can also buy upgraded face gaskets and head straps online for much cheaper than some of the prices being floated around for supposedly high-end models.

If spotting is very important to you, you might look at the Quest Pro. When I received this headset, I was prepared to dislike it bc of the low resolution. The pancake lenses though + the QLED screens in conjunction with MBucchia's Quad Views software package allow me to dial my resolution very high at 72 or 90 Hz. (The Quest 3 can work with Quad Views, but only in Fixed Foveated mode while the Quest Pro has true eye tracking and can benefit even more.) It is not quite flatscreen OLED 4K clarity, ... but it is not far off. The Varjo Aero is extremely good and has the better pixel density but Quest Pro with much lower resolution surprisingly pulls about even (if you use Quad Views) due to its even better pancake lenses and QLEDs (versus the aspheric lenses and mini-LED screens of the Aero). You would not think it by the listed stats but in-sim, the Quest Pro is actually my preferred headset for spotting/dogfighting. The Quest Pro also has full eye and hand-tracking which means you don't need to use PointCtrl or any of the other finger pointing devices that some advertise in the VR forums. You also don't need external Lighthouse tracking stations (thank god!) and the headset is better balanced than the Quest 3. Finally, the included hand controllers are the first I have ever used that beat the Valve Knuckles (Quest Pro hand controllers are self tracking). You get a great deal and the Quest Pro currently goes for about $800 new or from ScumBay for $600 or less for used.

Edited January 21 by Tensorial_Architect

[diego999]

You are correct.

 

2 hours ago, CybrSlydr said:

I Put the elite head strap, the physical USB cable, and a face gasket and you're pushing $1k for the Quest.

 

No. Far from that. Don't buy any of the official Meta accesories. Look for third party ones. I've been using a $15 generic USB-C cable for the last two years, zero problems. For alternative head straps there are decent ones that will not add much to the total cost. And the face gasket, for me, it's perfectly serviceable. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Cgjunk2]

The quest 3 is more than a match for the HP Reverb G2 based on my experience.  The visual clarity and resolution is equal to, or greater than the G2 in most regards.  

However, big caveat, It most definitely does not fall under "it just works".   The reliability of the meta branded link cable sucks... Sometimes it doesn't recognize it as a USB 3 device and defaults to USB 2, requiring reconnections and fiddling.   I bought another brand cable for 20 bucks less, which sucks in its own way.  I can't leave it plugged in to charge when I;m not using it because the charging function repeatedly shuts off and turns on.  

I'm on a 2070 GPU and i9700k with 32gb of ram, and the performance is wildly variable on DCS.   Some days it's absolutely beautiful, smooth FPS with reasonable settings.  It can run smoothly for hours on end on multiplayer on a very busy server.    Literally the next time I start DCS, and do the same exact thing (same settings, flying on the same server)  I will have horribly jerky/stuttery head-tracking for no discernible reason.    Sometimes the jerky/stuttery head tracking happens with perfectly fine FPS performance, other times it happens along side large persistent FPS slowdowns.  Sometimes within the same session head-tracking will be perfect, but then an F4 does a close fly by and the LOD texture loading triggers low FPS, or poor head-tracking, or both.    I suspect much of these problems relate to DCS specifically, since it's not something I see when I use the headset outside of DCS (not that I do much else with it).    I'm a bit hesitant to dump money on new computer system, since it seems a subset of people experience very similar problems with high end systems. 

It's all pretty infuriating, but I think we all know what VR is like.  If I can get 1 out of 10 good sessions, I'll keep trying to figure out what the pattern is, I'll keep trying to find a startup ritual that is appeasing to the VR gods.   It's a horrible position to be in, VR ruined me and I can no longer play flat screen lol. 

As a side note,  I worry the era of VR might be stalling out.  I hope new hardware will keep coming, but I don't like what I see.  The G2 was really quite a nice headset.  But now, the lack options for headsets with integrated audio and inside out headtracking is depressing.  And the whole deal with Pimax trying to go "subscription" suggests manufactures aren't as interested in developing the hardware side of things (as does Varjo and HP pulling out of the market).   Zuckerberg will keep making the Meta for as long as it takes him to realize that the Metaverse is an idiotic idea, so I'm not sure if he'll see the need to subsidize the prices of these headsets for much longer. 

 

 

Edited January 21 by Cgjunk2

[Qcumber]

7 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

(Current or past owner of the Rift, 8K, Index, Rift S, G1, G2, Aero, Quest Pro, Crystal, Crystal Light, and Quest 3)

Yes, you are right.

The Quest 3 is the best at, .... it just works, ... (for most people under most situations with the least snafus), ... for the $500 and under price range. My Crystal and Crystal Light have been less than fully reliable (build issues, software issues, customer service issues, etc ...) On paper, the Crystal Light seems like it beats the Quest 3 for seated PCVR, ... but in real-life, ... no.

You also don't need the $79 official Meta Quest Link data cable (you can use this). You can also buy upgraded face gaskets and head straps online for much cheaper than some of the prices being floated around for supposedly high-end models.

If spotting is very important to you, you might look at the Quest Pro. When I received this headset, I was prepared to dislike it bc of the low resolution. The pancake lenses though + the QLED screens in conjunction with MBucchia's Quad Views software package allow me to dial my resolution very high at 72 or 90 Hz. (The Quest 3 can work with Quad Views, but only in Fixed Foveated mode while the Quest Pro has true eye tracking and can benefit even more.) It is not quite flatscreen OLED 4K clarity, ... but it is not far off. The Varjo Aero is extremely good and has the better pixel density but Quest Pro with much lower resolution surprisingly pulls about even (if you use Quad Views) due to its even better pancake lenses and QLEDs (versus the aspheric lenses and mini-LED screens of the Aero). You would not think it by the listed stats but in-sim, the Quest Pro is actually my preferred headset for spotting/dogfighting. The Quest Pro also has full eye and hand-tracking which means you don't need to use PointCtrl or any of the other finger pointing devices that some advertise in the VR forums. You also don't need external Lighthouse tracking stations (thank god!) and the headset is better balanced than the Quest 3. Finally, the included hand controllers are the first I have ever used that beat the Valve Knuckles (Quest Pro hand controllers are self tracking). You get a great deal and the Quest Pro currently goes for about $800 new or from ScumBay for $600 or less for used.

I would second that. I got my QP used (immaculate, like new) for £300. It's still a very good headset. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

7 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

the Quest Pro is actually my preferred headset

Same here. Actually the ONLY headset…

[Mordants]

2 hours ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Same here. Actually the ONLY headset…

Quest Pro for me too! Coupled with a 4090, Virtual Desktop and Globular Cluster headstrap and pads.

Edited January 21 by Mordants

[Aapje]

I would say that the Quest 3 is by far the best value if you play both standalone and PCVR games.

For only simming, a second hand Quest Pro and the Pimax Crystal Light are also in contention. The biggest issue with the latter is the QA issues and that support can be poor, so it exposes you to a fairly high level of risk.

All the other stuff is not value for money, and sometimes even has severe downsides that make it questionable choices even if you are willing to spend the money.

13 hours ago, CybrSlydr said:

Though it seems the Quest 3 isn't without it's problems either as folks say the headset is very uncomfortable to use and recommend getting a 3rd party face gasket.  Put the elite head strap, the physical USB cable, and a face gasket and you're pushing $1k for the Quest.

Are you Canadian or Australian? Because otherwise your prices are way off.

Note that the official accessories are extremely overpriced and mediocre quality. You should instead get some good quality stuff by Chinese companies (of course, the official stuff comes out of China too).

[Dave317]

I got a Quest 3 after a short trial period with a Pico 4.  IMO the Quest 3 is far better and like others have said you don't need an official USB cable, a £16 one works just fine.  I'm perfectly happy with the strap and don't find the face gasket uncomfortable either.

[EightyDuce]

Just got Quest 3 as a lateral/upgrade for my G2. I was originally looking at PCL or a second hand Quest pro. Unfortunately for me, PCL has way too many quality control issues and wasn't something I felt like dealing with on a $1000 purchase, will revisit them when 6090 comes out and Super has matured. Quest Pro I couldn't find for a good enough price secondhand ($500+ used). 

Grabbed Q3 with a slight discount for $430+tax. Couple of things as been mentioned, if you go cable route its hard to beat a $20 link cable from Amazon vs $70 meta cable. I opted for VD ($25) as it streamlines some of the process for PCVR/SteamVR and desktop use, but I had issues with stutter, likely due to WiFi (connected to my Unifi U7Pro) even though Im seated less than 10 ft away from it; kept getting stutters every 14-16 seconds where it would go from butter smooth to a hiccup, then butter smooth. This did not occur with a physical connection (ethernet or USB).

My ultimate solution was using VD with an ethernet adapter, which allows for more granular control of VD without a downside of a Wireless connection. Running 72hz, Godlike preset, AV1 @200Mbit with SSW. For now, not using QuadViews. My fallback plan was using an Amazon USB cable for quest link. Coupled with AMVR facial interface and Kiwi H4 Boost battery halo strap. 

Stock strap and facial interface are pretty crap but can be corrected for about $40 for both (AMVR facial interface and Kiwi elite strap).

Lastly, mine has multiple stuck pixels. They aren't super intrusive as they are only barely noticeable in dark scenes, but they are noticeable. Looking on reddit it's not an uncommon issue. 

TLDR: its a positive stepup from a G2 in terms of lense quality, that sweetspot is just awesome. Comfort is a stepdown but mitigated by $40-$50 purchase, audio is a slight stepdown as well. At the end if the say you probably end up spending another $60-80 on top of the Q3. So far, no regrets. 

[CybrSlydr]

I think what I'm going to do is go to Best Buy and buy a Quest3 and test drive it for a week or so and see if I like it.  If not, I can return it.

Appreciate your input, folks! 

Wish the Quest Pro wasn't only on eBay, hard for me to trust those sellers with that much money.  lol

Walmart has this cable - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Onn-16-feet-Link-Charge-Cable-for-Oculus-Meta-Quest-Meta-Quest-2-3-Not-Included-PC-VR-Headset/11964286?fulfillmentIntent=In-store&filters=[{"intent"%3A"fulfillmentIntent"%2C"values"%3A["In-store"]}]&classType=REGULAR&from=/search

Better than the Meta one price-wise, but neither BB or Walmart has a longer USB-C cable, 2.6 feet or 1m cables.  I'm close to the PC, but that's too short.

Edited January 21 by CybrSlydr

[Canada_Moose]

The Bobo VR headstrap is a must on the Quest 3 for me. Makes it super comfortable and great price

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, CybrSlydr said:

I think what I'm going to do is go to Best Buy and buy a Quest3 and test drive it for a week or so and see if I like it.  If not, I can return it.

Appreciate your input, folks! 

Wish the Quest Pro wasn't only on eBay, hard for me to trust those sellers with that much money.  lol

Walmart has this cable - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Onn-16-feet-Link-Charge-Cable-for-Oculus-Meta-Quest-Meta-Quest-2-3-Not-Included-PC-VR-Headset/11964286?fulfillmentIntent=In-store&filters=[{"intent"%3A"fulfillmentIntent"%2C"values"%3A["In-store"]}]&classType=REGULAR&from=/search

Better than the Meta one price-wise, but neither BB or Walmart has a longer USB-C cable, 2.6 feet or 1m cables.  I'm close to the PC, but that's too short.

Yeah I grabbed it from amazon for return policy, ended up just working out.

 

I had bought this cable to try, seemed to work fine. But I ultimately use the Ethernet solution with virtual desktop.

Syntech Link Cable 16FT for PCVR Compatible with Oculus/Quest 3/Meta Quest 3S, Quest2/Pro/Pico 4/Ultra Accessories and PC/SteamVR, High Speed PC Data Transfer, USB 3.0 to USB C Cable for VR Headset https://a.co/d/27l1soH

[CybrSlydr]

So, I went out and bought the Quest 3 - and just got back from returning it.

You folks were right, it is not comfortable.  Not that terrible, but something you really need to fiddle with to make wearable.  I also had a constant hole around my nose letting light in.

The head tracking is absolutely dead-on amazing.  With the G2, I'd look down on the F-16 panel for, say, to turn on the jammer.  The G2 would lose tracking and jump all over the place.  The Quest 3 is dead-nuts amazing - no matter which direction I was looking, it was rock steady.

The VR pass-through was also pretty flipping cool - the controllers worked great and even the hand recognition was pretty impressive.  The color/contrast were also a big upgrade over the G2.

So why did I return it?

Text.  

I fiddled with every single setting in DCS, read a bunch of articles on Quest 3 settings, etc.  Nothing I could do could make the text, meaning text on screens or labels on gauges/switches easily readable - the G2 is superior in this area.  Also, no matter what I did for AA, the shimmering was ridiculous.  Trees looked like watercolor paintings.  

I also tried the Foveated Rendering in OpenXR and it was so distracting having that pixelation in my peripheral vision.  Holy cow.  

So, I returned it.  I'm going to give the Delanclip Pro I have another go - I just hate having to move my head around my eyes.  That's annoying.

Appreciate your help folks! 

[EightyDuce]

8 minutes ago, CybrSlydr said:

So, I went out and bought the Quest 3 - and just got back from returning it.

You folks were right, it is not comfortable.  Not that terrible, but something you really need to fiddle with to make wearable.  I also had a constant hole around my nose letting light in.

The head tracking is absolutely dead-on amazing.  With the G2, I'd look down on the F-16 panel for, say, to turn on the jammer.  The G2 would lose tracking and jump all over the place.  The Quest 3 is dead-nuts amazing - no matter which direction I was looking, it was rock steady.

The VR pass-through was also pretty flipping cool - the controllers worked great and even the hand recognition was pretty impressive.  The color/contrast were also a big upgrade over the G2.

So why did I return it?

Text.  

I fiddled with every single setting in DCS, read a bunch of articles on Quest 3 settings, etc.  Nothing I could do could make the text, meaning text on screens or labels on gauges/switches easily readable - the G2 is superior in this area.  Also, no matter what I did for AA, the shimmering was ridiculous.  Trees looked like watercolor paintings.  

I also tried the Foveated Rendering in OpenXR and it was so distracting having that pixelation in my peripheral vision.  Holy cow.  

So, I returned it.  I'm going to give the Delanclip Pro I have another go - I just hate having to move my head around my eyes.  That's annoying.

Appreciate your help folks! 

Glad you were at least able to give it a shot, best way to know is to try.

Funny that you mention QuadViews Foveated Rendering. I think its perfect for G2 because of such a small sweet spot, your peripheral vision is always pretty crap so you don't even notice the reduced quality. On Q3 with that gigantic sweet spot and QuadViews enabled the reduced peripheral was hella distracting. Thankfully 4090 has been able to pull steady 72 fps with my desired settings without QuadViews.

As for the text, out of curiosity did you use AirLink, cable or Virtual Desktop? I ask because to me, text was clearer with Quest 3 via VD AV1 encoder than I had native with my G2.

 

[CybrSlydr]

I used that cable I bought from WalMart.  I had it plugged into a USB C port on the I/O of my motherboard, not a front panel connector.

[Aapje]

8 hours ago, CybrSlydr said:

I used that cable I bought from WalMart.  I had it plugged into a USB C port on the I/O of my motherboard, not a front panel connector.

My suggestion is to always test the cable using the speed tool, so you know that it is running at high speed. Both the cable and the USB port need to support the higher speed, and it is easy for one or the other to hamper the bandwidth and get horrible visuals. Furthermore, I would open the Oculus Debug tool and manually set the transfer rate to 500.

I think that you had a bandwidth issue and that the text would be clear if you fix that.

Quote

You folks were right, it is not comfortable.  Not that terrible, but something you really need to fiddle with to make wearable.  I also had a constant hole around my nose letting light in.

Yes, I would always budget for some upgrades with the Quest 3. The AMVR Facial interface fixes the light bleed at the nose and is more comfortable and hygienic. Do be aware that they fairly recently released the better Q3FC3 version, which you should get, not the old one. It's the one with the distinctive knobs for distance adjustment.

[Canada_Moose]

11 hours ago, CybrSlydr said:

So, I went out and bought the Quest 3 - and just got back from returning it.

You folks were right, it is not comfortable.  Not that terrible, but something you really need to fiddle with to make wearable.  I also had a constant hole around my nose letting light in.

The head tracking is absolutely dead-on amazing.  With the G2, I'd look down on the F-16 panel for, say, to turn on the jammer.  The G2 would lose tracking and jump all over the place.  The Quest 3 is dead-nuts amazing - no matter which direction I was looking, it was rock steady.

The VR pass-through was also pretty flipping cool - the controllers worked great and even the hand recognition was pretty impressive.  The color/contrast were also a big upgrade over the G2.

So why did I return it?

Text.  

I fiddled with every single setting in DCS, read a bunch of articles on Quest 3 settings, etc.  Nothing I could do could make the text, meaning text on screens or labels on gauges/switches easily readable - the G2 is superior in this area.  Also, no matter what I did for AA, the shimmering was ridiculous.  Trees looked like watercolor paintings.  

I also tried the Foveated Rendering in OpenXR and it was so distracting having that pixelation in my peripheral vision.  Holy cow.  

So, I returned it.  I'm going to give the Delanclip Pro I have another go - I just hate having to move my head around my eyes.  That's annoying.

Appreciate your help folks! 

A few comments:

1) The head strap that comes with it (and for some, the faceplate) is not good. As mentioned above, the Bobo or similar head strap is a must.

2) You really need to run the Quest 3 at the max resolution settings in the Link software and also up the bitrate in the debug tool to get the best visuals, but I have had zero issue with text on displays for the most part after these settings changes and is like night and day compared to my old Rift S

3) On quad-view foveated, you can add your own settings config file which puts the reduced resolution area more 'out of sight'. This worked really well for me and reduced the effect whilst maintaining the performance improvement.

[CybrSlydr]

I did go into the software and upped the bitrate to whatever the max was, but I didn't do anything in the de-bugging tool.  The headset was at 72Hz by default, so I just left it at that.  

I didn't see anything where I could change resolutions in any of the menus I checked, both in the Link software and in the headset.

The text in the Apache was the worst - the comm frequencies on the display on the top of the pilot MFDs was nigh-unreadable no matter what I did.  It was pretty bad in the F-16 as well.

[milit]

@CybrSlydr could I ask the config of your rig? CPU and GPU are interested.

I'm a new user of Q3 and spent almost every evening  a month to tune a tons of settings. But now it's a pleasure to fly any module I have.

Yes, msaa x4 is not ideal, but its not a Q3 problem.

[CybrSlydr]

1 minute ago, milit said:

@CybrSlydr could I ask the config of your rig? CPU and GPU are interested.

I'm a new user of Q3 and spent almost every evening  a month to tune a tons of settings. But now it's a pleasure to fly any module I have.

Yes, msaa x4 is not ideal, but its not a Q3 problem.

7800X3D, regular 4080, 64GB RAM.

[diego999]

 

1 hour ago, CybrSlydr said:

I did go into the software and upped the bitrate to whatever the max was, but I didn't do anything in the de-bugging tool.  The headset was at 72Hz by default, so I just left it at that.  

I didn't see anything where I could change resolutions in any of the menus I checked, both in the Link software and in the headset.

The text in the Apache was the worst - the comm frequencies on the display on the top of the pilot MFDs was nigh-unreadable no matter what I did.  It was pretty bad in the F-16 as well.

 

 

 

Setting the resolution to the max in the Meta App and a bit of increase in pixel density should give you good clarity (your 4090 should be able to go to PD 1.5, 1.6 or even more). Then you can play a bit with the encoding bitrate for fine tuning (max value is 960 but my pc can't handle more than 720).

If I can read HUDs, cockpits and gauges with a 3060ti, you should be able to achieve amazing visual quality with your monster rig. You just need a bit of patience to find the right settings.

Edited January 22 by diego999

[Phantom711]

@CybrSlydr

From the timestamps on your posts…even if you live right next to that BestBuy and you didn‘t do anything else after buying the Q3…at best, you fiddled around with it for 7 hours. And then you returned it without even considering to ask people in this forum? Does BestBuy have an 8 hour maximum return policy?  

Do you really think that hundreds or even thousands of DCS VR players simply enjoy blurry cockpit instruments/displays with their Q3?

I really don‘t want to sound mean…

I‘d say it‘s definitely possible to get a nice and crisp image with a Q3. It‘s very likely that you missed some important setting.

Edited January 22 by Phantom711

[CybrSlydr]

No, you're right.  I only had it for about 6 hours.  

I just decided to return it that soon because it wasn't comfortable and the ridiculous amount of tweaking I did that didn't resolve it just soured me on the whole thing.  The need to buy 3rd party accessories to make it comfortable was also a knock against it.

The G2 was relatively simple to tweak by comparison.  

I just took it back while I was still thinking about it and BB was still open - it's only about a 5min drove to BB from my apartment.

[Aapje]

To be honest, I think that you are going to have a hard time finding a replacement that you will like with that mindset. Tweaking is a pretty common need and you didn't seem to have taken advantage of available resources, choosing to use trial and error instead. Having lots of those resources available is one of the benefits of the headset.

The need for 3rd part accessories has benefits as well, because it means that you can tune things to your liking. I would argue that the price reflects this and you should just factor in some accessories into the price.