Anyone with a AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D - what's typical loading time?

[goot66]

What's the typical loading time with this CPU?

[The_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, goot66 said:

What's the typical loading time with this CPU?

well it might depend on the mission, do you have a particular mission too try or a canned mission to try, I dont have a AMD CPU..

[skywalker22]

For the game to load it take cca 45sec, for the mission 10-15 seconds (only for the initial boot of the mission it strangely takes 2,3 minutes, it stays on "Spawn Objects" 95% of that time).

 

Edited January 28 by skywalker22

[some1]

In case you experience very long DCS loading times, exclude DCS folder from antivirus scan. That often helps.

[skypickle]

Boot time for amd 7800x is long due to a mem check. Is it any better w the 9800x?

[kksnowbear]

1 hour ago, skypickle said:

Boot time for amd 7800x is long due to a mem check. Is it any better w the 9800x?

If so, you probably have something in your setup that's causing or aggravating the problem.  And, if that's the case, it won't be any better on the same board just by changing the CPU.

If you're willing to provide details, you might be able to improve this.  Where did you get the machine?  (pre-built, DIY, etc)

Edited January 27 by kksnowbear

[skypickle]

Its an rog mainboard with 64 g ram (2 sticks). It is a known ‘ normal’ process of memory check during boot. The boot code 15 shows for about a minute and then the remaining boot process continues. 

[kksnowbear]

You're referring to memory training, and it's not necessarily 'normal' or a given on these machines.  I've built several, including my own ROG Strix X670E-F and others including for DCS players, and the slow booting isn't normal or automatic, I can tell you.  (All these have had four modules, BTW)

What speed is your RAM?  CAS level?  Have you made the relevant BIOS changes?

It is true if you populate all four slots with certain modules and/or certain speeds/CAS levels, etc you can run into problems.  But that doesn't necessarily make it 'normal' or impossible to change. It can work just fine, with the right setup.

Edited January 27 by kksnowbear

[skypickle]

Memory training is normal

https://www.howtogeek.com/what-is-ddr5-memory-training/#:~:text=DDR5 "training" helps optimize RAM,just be encountering memory training.

 

i have oc’ed memory

[kksnowbear]

No, memory training isn't always 'normal' and the machine can be configured to skip it (which can in turn stop long boot times, if other factors are in order).

And yes, I'm familiar with all that article says, but it's absolutely misleading because it doesn't tell you anything about what you can do to skip training, which the boards support, pretty sure any ROG Strix board will.

The article you linked basically says "Just get used to it", which obviously doesn't change anything. If you read that and nothing else on the subject, then yeah, you're going to be stuck with it.

9 hours ago, skypickle said:

i have oc’ed memory

Then it's absolutely true to say your specific setup is causing the issue - as I said in my first post.  And, as I said, with that setup, changing the CPU won't likely make any difference.

But it is not true to say it's normal, nor that it happens on all AM5 CPUs/boards.

That's like saying "I put 5,000 pounds of bricks in my sub-compact 1500cc car, and it's slow....therefore all 1500cc cars are slow".

If by "overclocked" you mean running XMP or EXPO profiles, that's rated performance and it should still work fine - again, unless the builder gets too crazy and/or it's being caused/aggravated by configuration issues.

But hey, have it your way

Edited January 28 by kksnowbear

[EightyDuce]

6 hours ago, skypickle said:

Boot time for amd 7800x is long due to a mem check. Is it any better w the 9800x?

Long initial boot is likely memory training. If memory context restore is enabled in BIOS, then subsequent boots will be significantly shorter. Worth checking if your memory is on the board QVL. 

I recently upgraded from 7800X3D to 9800X3D. My first boot and memory training was several minutes, significantly longer than on 7800X3D. Subsequent boots are under 20 seconds, with memory context restore enabled. That being said, there is potential issue being reported with 9800X3D and latest  Asus 1.2.0.3 AGESA based bios causing 00/Red LED on boot. 

If you are experiencing long boot/training times on every boot even with memory cotext restore enabled, I would update to the latest bios, take a look at your RAM again to see if it's on QVL for the motherboard, check EXPO enabled, and if all fails, return to stock and see if long boot continues as it can be indicative of unstable memory (if overclocked). 

[skypickle]

Thank you.!

  I keep memory context restore disabled because i had instability when i was benchmarking in the beginning. Never updated the bios but since dcs is stable and never crashes for me i dont want to rock the boat

[kksnowbear]

1 hour ago, skypickle said:

Thank you.!

  I keep memory context restore disabled because i had instability when i was benchmarking in the beginning. Never updated the bios but since dcs is stable and never crashes for me i dont want to rock the boat

Then - precisely as I said up front, your own configuration is what's causing the issue you have and you're basically choosing to accept the long boots.  Entirely your choice, of course.

However, these BIOS settings exist to avoid this behavior (within the limits of the hardware in use ...BTW there are two settings, not just Context Restore).  It's not "normal" to have that behavior.

And not updating the BIOS isn't helping with the problem either.

It is a myth that memory training (and the associated long boot times) are 'normal' and unavoidable on AM5 platforms, provided they're properly built and configured.

If someone chooses to overclock, entirely up to them.  But it is perfectly 'normal' for these machines to have issues like these if overclocking isn't done within the abilities of the hardware.

You've pushed the overclock so far that, with the memory you're using, you're forcing memory training every boot.  Even in the BIOS settings, it actually says Context Restore will avoid training "when possible" (this is also in the BIOS manual, at least for my ROG Strix X670E model):

It's not the hardware's fault that your configuration causes this; you can't have it both ways.  The switch is in the BIOS, it's your choice whether or not you use it.  It works just fine, provided you're not trying to exceed what the hardware is capable of.

Incidentally, AMD actually was very forthcoming about all of this with the Zen4 release.  Generally speaking it will work even beyond what they actually specify.  Like I said, it's only a problem when someone gets too crazy and/or has an improper configuration for the hardware being used.

Edited January 28 by kksnowbear

[EightyDuce]

2 hours ago, skypickle said:

Thank you.!

  I keep memory context restore disabled because i had instability when i was benchmarking in the beginning. Never updated the bios but since dcs is stable and never crashes for me i dont want to rock the boat

MCR can be kind of a mixed bag. Early BIOS versions had issues when overclocking with MCR and power down mode enabled because memory not re-train memory where there is obvious instability; it would basically haliculate that the settings are fine and try to boot when they obviously aren't. It's pretty much been a non-issue, at least for asus boards, for a few BIOS updates now, though some keep power down mode disabled because it has a weird interaction with some memory latency benchmarks. On my system I keep MCR on and PDM off. But as always, every BIOS update has the potential to introduce problems into an otherwise working system, usually give it a week or two before updating. 

You can try a newer BIOS, save your settings (good chance you lose your saved profiles on update) and make sure you have a copy of your old BIOS if you see a regression in performance. Not sure if you have an EXPO kit or XMP, but some  boards don't train resistances well (or ay all) on XMP kits on AMD. EXPO seems to do better with that; not an issue if you're not overclocking, but if you start pushing it may. 

 

[skywalker22]

 

16 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

Long initial boot is likely memory training. If memory context restore is enabled in BIOS, then subsequent boots will be significantly shorter. Worth checking if your memory is on the board QVL. 

I recently upgraded from 7800X3D to 9800X3D. My first boot and memory training was several minutes, significantly longer than on 7800X3D. Subsequent boots are under 20 seconds, with memory context restore enabled. That being said, there is potential issue being reported with 9800X3D and latest  Asus 1.2.0.3 AGESA based bios causing 00/Red LED on boot. 

I have exactly the same situation, and I have MSI X870 Tomahawk motherboard. Have to check the lights on the mobo during that long memoy check (if this really is a memory check, but it seems like it is).

[kksnowbear]

On 1/27/2025 at 8:39 PM, EightyDuce said:

MCR can be kind of a mixed bag. Early BIOS versions had issues when overclocking with MCR and power down mode enabled because memory not re-train memory where there is obvious instability; it would basically haliculate that the settings are fine and try to boot when they obviously aren't. It's pretty much been a non-issue, at least for asus boards, for a few BIOS updates now, though some keep power down mode disabled because it has a weird interaction with some memory latency benchmarks. On my system I keep MCR on and PDM off. But as always, every BIOS update has the potential to introduce problems into an otherwise working system, usually give it a week or two before updating. 

You can try a newer BIOS, save your settings (good chance you lose your saved profiles on update) and make sure you have a copy of your old BIOS if you see a regression in performance. Not sure if you have an EXPO kit or XMP, but some  boards don't train resistances well (or ay all) on XMP kits on AMD. EXPO seems to do better with that; not an issue if you're not overclocking, but if you start pushing it may. 

 

I have four AM5 boards in my shop lately.  Three are Asus; one is MSI.  The MSI setup is not on a bench right now, but I've had the three Asus boards accessible most recently.

When I updated the BIOS on these Asus boards, I noted that all of them now switch Power Down Enable on whenever Memory Context Restore is switched on.  I can tell you for absolute certain it was not like this in older BIOS versions; the reason I know is because previously, you always had to change both.  Now when you flip Memory Context Restore on, Power Down Enable changes automatically.  In fact, if you even just click on Enable for MCR (even though it's already Enabled), PDE will switch if it's not already Enabled.

It's not just that the settings behave as they do now, but the fact that they changed this behavior, recently.  That's very telling.

This would seem to indicate what Asus thinks is the best configuration, at least for the majority/in most cases.  I seriously doubt Asus would expend the resources to make a change like this unless it was appropriate/needed.

I am unaware of any problems with this configuration, having done so on (at least) six different AM5 builds now...though I don't know what 'memory latency benchmarks' refers to specifically.  I use memtest on every build and it passes fine.  Never seen an unstable machine pass.  Then again, I personally quit messing with memory overclocking, as I realized that whatever tiny gain you might get from it is not worth the hassle and cost IMO.

So I guess my perspective is "don't ask for problems".  I cannot afford to get bogged down in instabilities for free, and (so far) *very few* people have been willing to pay for the time associated with overclocking as an extra.  A couple frames more on 100 is not worth it to them either, it would seem  

"Overclocking" has always carried the potential for unusual behavior.  The manufacturers have all said this, pretty much since they even acknowledged overclocking to begin with.

Any individual can overclock if they want, but it's inaccurate and misleading to say a certain behavior is "normal" if you intentionally change config for the sake of overclocking.  (LOL If you want proof, just try to get warranty service/return on a board because your overclock fails, or because booting takes too long when you switch off Context Restore so you can overclock....aaaaaaand we're done here.)

Edited January 29 by kksnowbear

[BitMaster]

From my own experience with cold boot times, it's usually caused  by your RAM as said multiple times above.

I could show you boards that do the trick in 1-2 seconds and if you change the RAM settings slightly it will take many many more seconds, up to several reboots to tune in the RAM, this is NOTHING new and needed if the Bios can't properly adjust the settings on first try..

What helps:

#1: Update the Bios.  New versions upport more RAM modules and usually train better

#2: Up your RAM-Voltage "slightly", like 0.05-0.1v, this can do wonders.

If your RAM boots/trains in 1-2 seconds w/o any XMP or other overclocking, then that is your benchmark when you enable XMP or overclock manually. With correct settings they hopefully train in a few seconds.

When you unplug your PC from AC, your mobo will always fully train again 1st. time you power it up, mind that ! ( At least on the boards I own, sold or worked with that had these issues, a cold boot is "tabula rasa" for the board's RAM memory )

[kksnowbear]

4 hours ago, BitMaster said:

When you unplug your PC from AC, your mobo will always fully train again 1st. time you power it up,

Not so sure about that.  I tested mine just now, and it boots in ~20 sec (past the GPU LED) even though I just turned the PSU switch off and left it for several minutes.

Granted, I suppose it *could* still be training memory in that short time span - but when I've seen 'training' it usually take much longer.  Several minutes.

It's my impression this is what the Power Down Enable does, as opposed to just Memory Context Restore.  Makes sense that some people could run PDE off and think it wasn't different from only MCR, if they aren't turning off the PSU (who does?).  My take on that is they (Asus) probably wouldn't bother with two separate settings if they were not different things.

Now, again, I know it was changed recently, so maybe it didn't work like that all along.  Can't say that I've had to mess with it that much; I always set both on and that's that.

I also did not specifically test to see what happened if I turned off PDE *and* switched the PSU off, so that would be necessary to say 100% it causes retraining.  Maybe some day when I have time.

4 hours ago, BitMaster said:

#2: Up your RAM-Voltage "slightly", like 0.05-0.1v, this can do wonders.

I believe it accurate to say that, for the boards which have this issue to begin with, BIOS typically features a setting for a training voltage - so you don't have to do a 'blanket' voltage increase just to solve the training issues.  I still sometimes use a slight increase on RAM voltage, especially if all the slots are being populated (which I almost always do for various reasons.)  Not usually more than 5% (0.07v @ 1.35)  This does seem to help with stability, but that's been teh case for many generations of hardware now, not just the AM5 stuff.  Voltage "fanout" is a known electrical phenomenon, and it definitely applies to motherboard RAM slots.

Edited January 30 by kksnowbear

[BitMaster]

It may be, many variables here so to say, that if your RAM is well accepted in the board of choice, that when you plug in AC from cold you will have a 2-3 second Boot, quick and smooth.

Just when it "usually" takes a few attempts to sort the RAM until it boots and from there on also boots quick..this will likely redo the whole training, with a few reboots and beeps and what-not-else until it got sorted again and boots from cold...until you unplug AC again and it starts all over. Not a game breaker, just a PITA if you for whatever reason disconnect AC often.

Yes, with 4 modules, for ages, it's advised to up the Voltage "slightly". This is maybe the best tip of them all and where I would start to solve the training issue, but each combo behaves a bit different, throw in some Bios versions and Betas and you have fun

vor 1 Minute schrieb BitMaster:

 

 

Edited January 30 by BitMaster