=617= Evil Posted January 29 Posted January 29 (edited) Anyone noticed anything different with HARM behavior within the last couple updates? I'm seeing a lot more misses lately, and it seems like unless there are actively missiles in the air, the HARM won't track the emitter and it definitely wasn't like that before. This behavior persists regardless whether the weapon is employed via HTS pod, HAS display or PB to a steerpoint. I've tried it on SA2s, 11s, 15s and 10s (maybe a couple others) and it's the same for all of them. Missile is defeated, HARM sails over the target. HARM evasion is not switched on. These are as 'dumb' as SAM sites can get. In the past, you could stay well outside of range and lob HARMs at them and get consistent hits, now I'm seeing hit rates of 50% at best. I've been flying the Viper and making missions for 2.5 years and things definitely seem different within the last couple weeks. My squadron-mates are all seeing the same thing, in both the Hornet and the Viper. Anyone else notice this? I'm not necessarily complaining either. This change makes Weaseling a really fun challenge, but if it was a change I didn't see it in any of the patch notes, unless I just missed it, which is absolutely a possibility. Edited January 30 by =617= Evil 1 In Thrust We Trust.
void68 Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) That's how HARMs (of that build) work. I don't understand "HARM evasion not switched on" and "as dumb as sites can get", honestly. You mean they are constantly emitting in "dumb mode"? In that case the HARM should usually hit as long as you are within the launch parameters and correct filtering etc. As you notice a change I think you know how to employ HARMs. In case SAM sites behave somewhat realistic that's what SEAD does: supressing, not necessarily destroying SAMs (that would be DEAD). The emitter turns off (SR, TR) once it sees you going agressive and shoot a HARM: self protection. Consequence is that all SARH missiles it shot are wasted but the site itself will most likely survive. They got plenty of missiles, you got just 2-4 per aircraft. So you might say "but I am using PB, so the HARM will exactly hit that prebriefed waypoint!". No, the F-16 HARM model got no GPS on board, it relies mainly, almost solely on its radar wave sniffing seeker head, and it will sniff towards the waypoint. The course and range is calculated by on board INS once the missile is released from the mother airplane and that INS tends to be no so reliable in reaching exactly that tiny lets say 10m effective destruction radius. orb - 5m too high can lead to several 100m too far impact. There are builds that have GPS, some other ARMs even IR additional to the radar homing head on board and still will hit the emitter with the approbiate IR signature, even if turned off the site still radiates heat! So I noticed it's no longer "shooting a HARM at the emitter within range and 99% kill", no, the site operators (in reality a team of highly skilled professionals with just the task of destroying an aircraft) know what to do and play cat and mouse with interchangable roles. You got engaged by an SAM site and 2 missiles in the air? Shoot a HARM at the site and if the odds are against them, they will stop emitting till the threat is gone. Then they will transmit and launch another set of missiles against you. You and them constantly evaluate the situation, aspect, range, likeliness of kill. That where cranking, notching, perhaps low level flying comes in handy. As long as the SAM site is wasting its missiles on you you are doing the exact job profile of SEAD! 50% hit (i.e. in fact at least a tactical kill!) ratio in SEAD is quite successful TBH. It means that one aircraft with a symmetric loadout of two HARMs shuts down one complete SAM site of TRs, SR, 6 launchers plus auxiliary units for some time, at least for the mission! Remember: SA-15 and SA-10 are very able to and will shoot down your HARMs. There is almost no need in switching off their emitters as they can track multiple targets and launch two missiles on each (SA-10) for a total of six or so, don't remember exactly, so take this with a ton of salt, but you got the idea. SA-10 killing is best with low level, short range attack - or simply saturating them. I like it when radar operators behave in self-preservation and there's at last a noticeable difference between SEAD and DEAD. It's sometimes a ride on the razor's edge, and for sure you already know the slogan of the first WildWeasel guys: YGBSM. Honestly... I feel like "You gotta be sh*tting me!" each SEAD mission. edit: HARM-C just antiradiation with INS for the DCS F-16, HARM-D with GPS update not available Edited February 4 by void68
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