Turboboy997 Posted April 23 Posted April 23 I've been away for a few months and decided to return after seeing the DTC update. After the update, I'm not able to change my takeoff trim. My key binding shows the trim button being depressed but the DDI setting doesn't change from 12. I don't see anyone else writing about this, so I need your help. Thanks. VR Oculus 1, Alienware Aurora R11, Windows 10, Intel I9, CPU 3.7, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080, 32GB, 2 TB HDD/1TB SSD, Thrustmaster F18 Add On Stick, Thrustmaster TWCS throttle, older than dirt Toshiba monitor, Alienware 510 headphones.
razo+r Posted April 23 Posted April 23 Just now, Turboboy997 said: I've been away for a few months and decided to return after seeing the DTC update. After the update, I'm not able to change my takeoff trim. My key binding shows the trim button being depressed but the DDI setting doesn't change from 12. I don't see anyone else writing about this, so I need your help. Thanks. Do you have a short track?
Scotch75 Posted April 23 Posted April 23 I've been away for a few months and decided to return after seeing the DTC update. After the update, I'm not able to change my takeoff trim. My key binding shows the trim button being depressed but the DDI setting doesn't change from 12. I don't see anyone else writing about this, so I need your help. Thanks. Is your flap setting to half?Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk 1 W10 Home 64Bit, Intel Skylake I5 6600K 3.50GHz, ASUS ROG Stryx Z270F MoBo, 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V DDR4 3200 RAM, Samsung 960 Pro 512GB M.2 SSD (OS), Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD, 2TB Seagate SDHD, 2TB WD Green HDD, GALAX GTX GeForce 1070 EXOC Sniper White 8GB VRAM
Turboboy997 Posted April 23 Author Posted April 23 Yes, trim is set to half and wings are down. If I move Checklist to the left DDI I can see Trim read flashing at the bottom of the DDI screen but still no movement with angle. When I have the Checklist to the right DDI (which is where I normally have it set) the Trim still flashes on the left DDI. This just started acting up after the DTC update. VR Oculus 1, Alienware Aurora R11, Windows 10, Intel I9, CPU 3.7, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080, 32GB, 2 TB HDD/1TB SSD, Thrustmaster F18 Add On Stick, Thrustmaster TWCS throttle, older than dirt Toshiba monitor, Alienware 510 headphones.
Turboboy997 Posted April 23 Author Posted April 23 Thank you for your help, it's usually me when things like this happen, so I'm going to try some different options. VR Oculus 1, Alienware Aurora R11, Windows 10, Intel I9, CPU 3.7, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080, 32GB, 2 TB HDD/1TB SSD, Thrustmaster F18 Add On Stick, Thrustmaster TWCS throttle, older than dirt Toshiba monitor, Alienware 510 headphones.
Czar66 Posted April 23 Posted April 23 1 hour ago, Turboboy997 said: Yes, trim is set to half and wings are down. Can you confirm the typo? 'Flaps' instead of 'trim'? Flaps to half, wings down AND handle locked. If the wing handle is not locked down, the trim will not move.
Czar66 Posted April 23 Posted April 23 Just booted Hornet Caucasus instant action: Ready on the ramp. Trim is working normally. Check the wing handle open and locked down.
PawlaczGMD Posted May 13 Posted May 13 Yeah, sounds like you don't have flaps to half. Verify that the switch is in the middle position and the green indicator says "half". With auto flaps, the hornet trims for G, not stabilizer position. You need to take off with Half flaps anyway or you will crash.
bbrz Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) On 5/13/2025 at 8:52 PM, PawlaczGMD said: You need to take off with Half flaps anyway or you will crash. This doesn’t make sense because the real one can take off with retracted flaps. Edited May 22 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
Muchocracker Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) it is NATOPS carrier launch procedure. The trim behavior is dependent on the flap switch Edited May 22 by Muchocracker
bbrz Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) @Muchocracker This has nothing to do with NATOPS. That's the way Northrop/McDonnell Douglas designed the plane. The question is, how do the pilots set the trim when taking off without flaps? Bernt Stolle - Art for Sale | Fine Art America Edited May 22 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
Muchocracker Posted May 22 Posted May 22 Source? It has absolutely everything do with the NATOPS, which makes explicit reference to HALF/FULL flaps settings being a separate set of flight control laws from AUTO that are takeoff and landing focused. Nor is there any stated permitted use of AUTO in takeoffs and landings. The procedure is to use HALF or FULL and increase stabilator trim according to gross weight and Cg. 1
bbrz Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) Source for what? Looks like my description wasn't clear enough. The F/A-18 has apparently been designed so that trim behaviour depends on the flap switch position, hence what NATOPS states is irrelevant. If NATOPS would state anything different, it wouldn't work. Bernt Stolle - Art for Sale | Fine Art America Edited May 22 by bbrz i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
razo+r Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Muchocracker said: Source? Probably the videos of F-18s flying at airshows taking off with flaps set to auto. So kind of a special/unique application, unrelated to naval ops. Edited May 22 by razo+r
PawlaczGMD Posted May 22 Posted May 22 2 hours ago, bbrz said: This doesn’t make sense because the real one can take off with retracted flaps. The FCS will not retrim to 1g if you have flaps in AUTO. If you set TO trim (+12) with flaps in auto you will most likely crash on takeoff because the nose will just keep rising. I guess you could take off in AUTO with neutral-ish trim if you really wanted to. I' assuming the average player sets takeoff trim. Ask me how I know you will crash.
Phantom711 Posted May 22 Posted May 22 vor 4 Stunden schrieb bbrz: This has nothing to do with NATOPS. That's the way Northrop/McDonnell Douglas designed the plane. This is a bit silly. The NATOPS basically is the „Instruction Manual“ on how to operate the plane, hence it reflects how the plane was designed to be operated. vor 3 Stunden schrieb bbrz: Source for what? The source that states that the F/A-18 can take off with flaps set to AUTO. I‘m sure it can be accomplished somehow…still doesn‘t mean it was meant to be done. vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.
bbrz Posted May 22 Posted May 22 21 minutes ago, Phantom711 said: This is a bit silly...... it reflects how the plane was designed to be operated. The source that states that the F/A-18 can take off with flaps set to AUTO. I don't get the silly part, since that's exactly what I previously wrote. Has been answered by @razo+r Bernt Stolle - Art for Sale | Fine Art America i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
Phantom711 Posted May 22 Posted May 22 @bbrz No…it‘s not what you previously said. Or at least it‘s not how you conveyed it. you said: vor 5 Stunden schrieb bbrz: The F/A-18 has apparently been designed so that trim behaviour depends on the flap switch position, hence what NATOPS states is irrelevant. A product is designed with certain specifications and features and if the manufacturer does his job correctly, the resulting „behavior“ will find its way into the manual. vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.
bbrz Posted May 22 Posted May 22 You still don't get it. First the plane is being designed and built, thereafter the manuals are written. Whatever the NATOPS (or any other F/A-18 manual) states, it only works the way Northrop/McDonnell Douglas have designed and built it. Again: If the NATOPS would state anything different, it wouldn't work. Bernt Stolle - Art for Sale | Fine Art America 1 i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070
PawlaczGMD Posted May 22 Posted May 22 Good thing we can get into the game and test how it actually works, right? You can take off with auto flaps if you use neutral trim.
Harley Posted May 29 Posted May 29 Seems the communication breakdown is about "can" vs "should". NATOPS is not a reference of design, but operation. Just because it's not in the book doesn't mean that mechanically these settings "lock out" or otherwise disable other functions. NATOPS is how the navy and the builder expect the pilot to handle their airplane. It is not a book that causes mechanical limitations in design or function. It's an abstract I think he's trying to point out. Just because it's not in the book doesn't mean it's locked out or just can't be done. Blue Angels takeoff with no flaps. Or at least the videos I have of them show it like that. It is very possible to do. I think it's the difference between "you can't cross the double yellow line" and "you can cross the double yellow line, you just get in trouble for it." And that may also be where the challenge is for DCS, is that the book is all they have to go on. So, they're somewhat reverse engineering the flight mechanics from the book written after the plane was already built, and retired from our military, really.
cajundave Posted June 4 Posted June 4 (edited) On 5/29/2025 at 3:25 AM, Harley said: It's an abstract I think he's trying to point out. Just because it's not in the book doesn't mean it's locked out or just can't be done. Blue Angels takeoff with no flaps. Or at least the videos I have of them show it like that. It is very possible to do. I believe I saw in a documentary, not sure which one, that the Blue's Hornets required FCS modification to allow takeoff with no flaps. I should add, only Blue Angel #5 takes off no flaps. They discovered during their initial transition from A-4s that the F-18 lost too much altitude on the dirty roll to safely do it on takeoff if using flaps, so they modified the maneuver to take off with no flaps. Edited June 11 by cajundave
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