Unguided weapons Release

[sweinhart3]

Hi all. Ive read the manual back to front and flown several campaign and standalone\training missions. The manual does not give much information for training purposes of non guided weapons and neither do the training missions. Ive tried quite some time to get accurate target hits with anything unguided. Rockets seem to take approximately 1 sec of depression of the trigger to weapons release and I cant get the chopper to remain steady on target for more than an instant which equals a miss. The only time Ive hit anything with rockets is when Im at point blank range or firing medium or long streams of rockets which eats ammo way too fast. Secondly, there is zero information on how to deploy other weapons like the dumb bombs and anti tank stuff. There is also no information on how to use the HUD in standby mode which is (in my understanding) the mode required to deploy these.

Lastly slightly off topic but still somewhat related, I cant seem to deploy any weapons during a night mission because I have to use NV goggles and can no longer see the targeting monitor, ABRIS or HUD to aim or lock on anything. Ive tried playing with contrast and brightness knobs but didnt help at all. If I dont use NV goggles for the trade off of helmet mounted tracking and being able to see instruments, well Ill probably end up in the side of a mountain shortly after takeoff.

Edited July 30, 2009 by sweinhart3

[STP Dragon]

My experience with unguided rockets are, that you can't trust the two circles on the HUD. You will never hit a target if you hover 2-3 km away from the target and try to hit it using the two circles.

 

I only use unguided rockets if my Vikhrs are used up. Then I change to close combat. I fly straigth ahead to the taget without locking it. If my rocket-circle is on the verge of the target I shoot the rockets. This is very dangerous because the enemy will shoot also at you. You can exercise the cone maneuver (manuel page 5-9) to take a saver way.

 

practice practice practice

 

 

PS: To lock a target at night you have to use a target-area-light.

 

(it's german but hopefully it will help)

http://www.lockonforum.de/thread.php?threadid=5233

Edited July 30, 2009 by =STP= Dragon

[Bisch]

the 1-second-delay for non-guided rockets is really annoying.

As for the targeting practise Id recommend to have a look in the editor.

You just need your chopper and some stuff standing around.

 

You may also try this one user made training mission with explanation

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2626185/1/STICKY_Tutorial_How_to_take_of.html

(you can also edit it for quicker rocket action)

[Groove]

Guys, unguided rockets are - unguided :D

 

Watching some real life Zuni rockets engagements opened my eyes regarding their "accuracy".

[Bisch]

Guys, unguided rockets are - unguided :D

 

Watching some real life Zuni rockets engagements opened my eyes regarding their "accuracy".

 

Well, we are supposed to make the best out of the limits of the BS, so we should also try to make the best out of it's arms ;)

[Warbird_242]

Try this - Ed Macy's APACHE - from amazon. It has some useful tips on rocket aiming; you'll probably recognize the differnt aiming methods from Black Shark.

 

The rockets are very accurate against a large and static target, for example a FARP or building, or non-moving cluster of vehicles. If you run out of Vikhirs, HE cannon is usually next best. RE the 1 second delay the only method of getting around that problem that I've found is to line up with the target, and float the rocket aiming reticule slowly up with the forward motion ( obviously works better at long range). Then as the reticule hits the targets, depress button, and gradually increase forward pressure on the stick to keep the target lined up.

[sweinhart3]

Does anyone know if there are any supplimental training manuals or weapons training manuals that anyone has written up or if the DEVs plan on adding any combat tactics / training to the manuals? The combat chapter in the book was one of the smallest chapters which was disapointing considering the entire purpose of this helicopter is combat employment.

[sweinhart3]

Guys, unguided rockets are - unguided :D

 

Watching some real life Zuni rockets engagements opened my eyes regarding their "accuracy".

 

 

Never the less, asfik a trained pilot should have little problem landing unguided weapons on his target without dumping his entire ammo load on it. Im sure there is some technique to doing this that I have no clue about.

 

Im also curious, is the KA-50 not capable of in-flight refueling and will this be incorporated into the sim at some point? Back when the DOS version of EF2000 came out, I spent hours just getting this challenge down from an hour to a few minutes but it was exciting to do.

[Warbird_242]

Sweinhart, one tactic you can try that might help is the following ( Taken from Ed Macy's APACHE).

 

Find a safe position, engage autohover ( if you're skilled enough you just go straight to attacking) , uncage the SHKVAL. Use the SHKVAL to find a target, then get a lock on it. Use the laser as well, because it provides slightly more accurate targeting. Select rockets and start a run in to the target ( I find 150kph works well). As the rocket target reticule lines up with the SHKVAL reticule, depress the button. Then push down slowly to keep the two reticules lined up, and fire off as ,amy rockets as you like.

 

 

 

Hope that helps

 

 

Warbird

[GGTharos]

Never the less, asfik a trained pilot should have little problem landing unguided weapons on his target without dumping his entire ammo load on it. Im sure there is some technique to doing this that I have no clue about.

 

Yes, there is. Fly steady. If you are having trouble flying steady, practice until you can. If you need help with technique to fly steady, then here's some tips:

 

Line up your target from a reasonable distance (preferably outside rocket range), and then establish a flight straight at it. You want to get it such that you are not making input changes, and you're completely trimmed out, with the reticle already close to target. From there, just gently fine-tune, and launch weapons once within range.

 

If you are flying towards the target in such a manner that large adjustments are required, you're doing it wrong (ie. significant pitch up, down, or turning. Further you should have the collective set so that your VS is zero)

 

Im also curious, is the KA-50 not capable of in-flight refueling and will this be incorporated into the sim at some point? Back when the DOS version of EF2000 came out, I spent hours just getting this challenge down from an hour to a few minutes but it was exciting to do.

It never was and never will be. ;)

[Groove]

Talking about Ed Macy, i met him recently and he said one of the highlights about Black Shark are the realistic employment and behaviour of unguided rockets :)

[goldfinger35]

Hi all. Ive read the manual back to front and flown several campaign and standalone\training missions. The manual does not give much information for training purposes of non guided weapons and neither do the training missions. Ive tried quite some time to get accurate target hits with anything unguided. Rockets seem to take approximately 1 sec of depression of the trigger to weapons release and I cant get the chopper to remain steady on target for more than an instant which equals a miss. The only time Ive hit anything with rockets is when Im at point blank range or firing medium or long streams of rockets which eats ammo way too fast. Secondly, there is zero information on how to deploy other weapons like the dumb bombs and anti tank stuff. There is also no information on how to use the HUD in standby mode which is (in my understanding) the mode required to deploy these.

Lastly slightly off topic but still somewhat related, I cant seem to deploy any weapons during a night mission because I have to use NV goggles and can no longer see the targeting monitor, ABRIS or HUD to aim or lock on anything. Ive tried playing with contrast and brightness knobs but didnt help at all. If I dont use NV goggles for the trade off of helmet mounted tracking and being able to see instruments, well Ill probably end up in the side of a mountain shortly after takeoff.

 

 

Check how real Ka-50 pilots do it (perfect alignment!): ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEHJc1pTkHc

[Arclight]

Check how real Ka-50 pilots do it (perfect alignment!): ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEHJc1pTkHc

Holy heck, that's amazing! I can hit targets just fine with rockets, but it takes 20x more effort. :joystick:

 

imho like mentioned before, switch to cannon after atgm are gone. It allows to use the skvahl for targeting, and accuracy is acceptable at 4km against light armor and soft targets. For rockets you'd better get within 2km.

 

Usually I target MBT and AA-threats with vikrhs, close to engage with cannon anything that can defend itself, and mop up using rockets. I launch atgm and cannon from hover, rockets in forward flight with FD engaged and carefull trimming. If the laser burns out, cannon can be very effective in strafing runs as well.

 

Just my 2 cents. ;)

 

* ah and to overcome the delay, anticipate. Try to have the rockets fire when the reticule gets to where you want it, instead of fighting to keep it on target. Like said, practice makes perfect.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Arclight

[goldfinger35]

I have one tip for firing unguided rockets:

it is easier to hit targets when you are flying high; if you are flying (hovering) at 100m height, only few percent up or down will make a huge difference, but if you are high enough, it shouldn't matter that much.

[CyBerkut]

Talking about Ed Macy, i met him recently and he said one of the highlights about Black Shark are the realistic employment and behaviour of unguided rockets :)

 

Oh sure, gloat about it... :D

[Warbird_242]

Talking about Ed Macy, i met him recently and he said one of the highlights about Black Shark are the realistic employment and behaviour of unguided rockets :)

 

 

What a coincidence hahaha

 

Have you read his book?

[Groove]

What a coincidence hahaha

 

Have you read his book?

 

Yes i did.

[Warbird_242]

Brilliant book isn't it? Really hammers home what the apaches and to use the cliche 'our boys' are doing out in the GAFA

[Groove]

Fantastic book, i strongly recommend it to everyone interested into military aviation. Gives some very interesting details and shows the respect our guys have for the enemy, even flying in a Apache fighting AK equipped enemies.

 

There will be a new book from Ed - "Hellfire" - hope it will be out soon!

[Warbird_242]

Brilliant - I'll look forward to that book. Another one I would reccomend is 'Apache Dawn' by Damien Lewis. That's by a journalist and author and about Apaches ( hence that name haha) in Afghanistan too. I'd actually say it's better written that Ed's book, but it doesn't go into the technical detail that i'm a sucker for like APACHE does.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Years with arcade Desert Combat and BF2...

 

If your can align a target with these "sensible" helis and network lag, with BS and improved controls are really easy. I engage FD, compensate launch delay and fire... as people said!

 

Just practice! And attack using "blind spots" of dangerous targets, of course!

[sweinhart3]

Thanks for all the comments. Ill practice more. So far I have been engaging targets with rockets at 1500 - 2500m at 100-200m altitude. I would start at a hover with all trim disengaged to maintain 0 airspeed with auto hover. I had been using standard auto pilot rather than FD with ground lock and turn towards target engaged on combat computer. Usually the heli will turn to target with the target reticle (shkval locked) a little off from aiming reticle. As I try to line them up I have to push the nose forward a bit which starts forward airspeed. Generally Im only making small corrective inputs but reticle still wanders a little up/down left/right which I try to correct. Of course even a half a hair width off results in a complete miss. One thing I notice is by the time Im about 500m from target, the target reticle is not exactly on the target even tho the skval is locked. I dont know if this is due to my using 3D glasses but I find that I have to ignore the target reticle and move the aiming reticle a bit to the actual target at which point my rockets usually hit within a few feet. Im not sure if the reticle being off a bit is a bug or just a 3D rendering issue that interferes between focusing a few feet away(HUD) and far away (actual target). It seems tho that I cant trust the actual target reticle that I see when trying to line it up.

[GGTharos]

Rocket attacks should be strafing attacks. Set'em up like that. 2500m is too close (minimum range for starting a run I would say) - start farther out, around 4km, then establish a normal flight path towards the targets at a controlled, steady airspeed.

 

500m is too close as well - you should be running in, launching at max range, then going away, not TOWARDS your target. I suppose this is certainly A technique rather than THE technique.

 

Further, misses with unguided weapons are certainly expected and acceptable.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Rocket attacks should be strafing attacks. Set'em up like that. 2500m is too close (minimum range for starting a run I would say) - start farther out, around 4km, then establish a normal flight path towards the targets at a controlled, steady airspeed.

 

500m is too close as well - you should be running in, launching at max range, then going away, not TOWARDS your target. I suppose this is certainly A technique rather than THE technique.

 

Further, misses with unguided weapons are certainly expected and acceptable.

 

Against large targets, dangerous targets or large groups of targets, that's the way to go! :thumbup:

 

But usually I can hit poorly this way. I like to use all my Vikhir, all my gun pods, all my cannon rounds and only use rockets against dangerous targets as last resource... tiny blast radius, need near a direct hit to cause considerably damage, need direct fly for a moment at least... In this kind of "desperate" cenario, or I get closer, try a "lucky shoot" with a bunch of rockets launch or just go away... I usually employ rockets against defenseless targets, and really close range. And it's fun!

 

Waiting for the patch and the "new rockets" with cool blast to kill some infantry and soft armoured targets! :)

[GGTharos]

The rockets are really meant to be used against infantry mostly, and other soft targets (destroying encampments etc).

 

The S-13 is an anti-bunker weapon and requires more precise operation, but on the other hand the targets also tend to be that much bigger.