DCS made me buy a new graphic card

[Kirai]

I think this is the first time a game/simulation was so good that it made me order a new graphic card. Right now I have a Nvidia Geforce 9600GT but when I crank up the graphics and when it gets hot I have some serious lag so I ordered a XFX GeForce GTX 275 640M 896MB PhysX card. I hope this do the trick :).

 

I love this game and its worth all the cash to get it to play at its best! :thumbup:

[jctrnacty]

Maybe you should buy a better CPU because this game is more CPU dependant.

[Ebodee]

Likewise! Went to my local 'puter shop and picked up a GTS-250. The GTX-295 was going for around $600.... ok BS is good but not that good! I upgraded from 8800 GTS SLI configuration.

 

Now what to do with these operational yet dusty paper-weights? :music_whistling:

[Nate--IRL--]

You will be able to use a lot more AA and AF, it really does make BS look Beautiful.

 

Nate

[Kirai]

Maybe you should buy a better CPU because this game is more CPU dependant.

 

Well I have a Intel Dualcore 3.0 Ghz and 4 GB ram, maybe I will overclock it in the future but for now I hope that the gfx card will do some change.

 

Likewise! Went to my local 'puter shop and picked up a GTS-250. The GTX-295 was going for around $600.... ok BS is good but not that good! I upgraded from 8800 GTS SLI configuration.

 

Now what to do with these operational yet dusty paper-weights? :music_whistling:

 

Haha well I sold my card to a friend cheap so I got something for it anyways :)

 

You will be able to use a lot more AA and AF, it really does make BS look Beautiful.

 

Nate

 

Sounds good, I think I get it tomorrow so only time will tell the difference :)

[EtherealN]

Yeah, aside from the obvious GPU-related stuff like AA and AF I think it's the CPU that is the important thing. The brief description of "when it gets hot" leads me to suspect that the CPU is the issue.

 

The difference between I run my system (see sig) per stock configuration and per the overclock indicated is massive, even if I don't touch the GPU at all. Different thing when touching AA and AF of course, but whenever there's really hot action it'll be the CPU that's bottlenecking again and fps will drop no matter what kind of breathing room I have on the GPU.

[Distiler]

I suppose u already use DCSMax? (with windows vista)

[EtherealN]

If you mean me - yes.

 

If you mean the OP, gods I hope he's already tried that route. >.<

[Kirai]

Yeah, aside from the obvious GPU-related stuff like AA and AF I think it's the CPU that is the important thing. The brief description of "when it gets hot" leads me to suspect that the CPU is the issue.

 

The difference between I run my system (see sig) per stock configuration and per the overclock indicated is massive, even if I don't touch the GPU at all. Different thing when touching AA and AF of course, but whenever there's really hot action it'll be the CPU that's bottlenecking again and fps will drop no matter what kind of breathing room I have on the GPU.

 

Ok well then I just have to overclock the CPU but I have never done that before so I just have to check on what I need to do, I don't want to fry the CPU :)

 

I suppose u already use DCSMax? (with windows vista)

 

Yeah I do :)

[EtherealN]

On overclocking - first establish that it is the cause of the problem. If you've never done it, don't rush into it. The risks of frying your equipment are very small (a lot smaller than most people think, usually doing something wrong means the computer just won't boot until you reset it), but the risks are real even though remote. If it seems like it could give you some benefits, and you want to try it while recognizing that there are risks, read this article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/13815

 

There's also a good forum in our native language at sweclockers.se, with many articles available.

 

Also, it's good to find articles on sites that talk about clocking on your specific hardware - brand of motherboard and so on.

 

That said though, I've never used a 9600 with DCS (I've used an 8600 tho) so I'm unsure of whether it would have been an actual bottleneck, but I expect that on some settings it might be. So my suspicion is that the upgrade was probably good anyway, but you might get added benefits from a clocking operation as well - but do make certain to read a lot on it before starting. The risks are small but they are there.

Edited August 9, 2009 by EtherealN

[CAT_101st]

My 8800GT handels BS great with the Windows 7 OS and dcsMAX. gitting a avrg 60FPS in pit and 75+ outside pit. (over the city) One of theas days I will up grade my ram to DDR2 1066. So I can Oc to 4Gh

[Mr Pink]

have a HD2400 256MB card at the minute, my weakest component in my PC i think, looking to upgrade to the GTX 295 myself, a lot of money but i think that for other games it will be worth it aswell as black shark. has anybody here been running the black shark on this card already?

[VMFA117_Poko]

I've got GTX 285 - no complains. But again, the most important thing is CPU (mine? C2D E8500 @ standard 3.16GHz) as well as RAM (I have 2x2GB 1066 DDR2 in dual channel). I use Vista64 and DCSMax to set affinity for both cores. This rig allows me to play on highest settings in BlackShark.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Poko24

[connos]

This game made me to completely upgrade my pc. Not even Crysis convince me to upgrade. I change motherboard, ram, processor and bought also a Saitek joystick and TrackIR.

[Feuerfalke]

The performance you reach with your graphics card depends a lot on the resolution and quality-settings you choose. If you fly with a monitor on 1280x1024 and don't use neither FSAA nor AF, the CPU will be your only limitation in terms of FPS.

 

Now, if you use a 1920x1200 or even multiple monitors with 16xAF + 16xQ Supersample FSAA, that looks quite different. That has nothing to do with the games performance, though. :smilewink:

[Kirai]

On overclocking - first establish that it is the cause of the problem. If you've never done it, don't rush into it. The risks of frying your equipment are very small (a lot smaller than most people think, usually doing something wrong means the computer just won't boot until you reset it), but the risks are real even though remote. If it seems like it could give you some benefits, and you want to try it while recognizing that there are risks, read this article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/13815

 

There's also a good forum in our native language at sweclockers.se, with many articles available.

 

Also, it's good to find articles on sites that talk about clocking on your specific hardware - brand of motherboard and so on.

 

That said though, I've never used a 9600 with DCS (I've used an 8600 tho) so I'm unsure of whether it would have been an actual bottleneck, but I expect that on some settings it might be. So my suspicion is that the upgrade was probably good anyway, but you might get added benefits from a clocking operation as well - but do make certain to read a lot on it before starting. The risks are small but they are there.

 

As I have stated before, this forum is one of the most friendly and mature forums I ever seen. Thanks for your help, I will start reading about overclocking :)

 

The performance you reach with your graphics card depends a lot on the resolution and quality-settings you choose. If you fly with a monitor on 1280x1024 and don't use neither FSAA nor AF, the CPU will be your only limitation in terms of FPS.

 

Now, if you use a 1920x1200 or even multiple monitors with 16xAF + 16xQ Supersample FSAA, that looks quite different. That has nothing to do with the games performance, though. :smilewink:

 

I must say that I'm not that familiar with the terms of FSAA and AF but I think I can be sure to say that my upgrade will do something but there can be more to add some cream to the cake (Swedish expression ;))

 

I've got GTX 285 - no complains. But again, the most important thing is CPU (mine? C2D E8500 @ standard 3.16GHz) as well as RAM (I have 2x2GB 1066 DDR2 in dual channel). I use Vista64 and DCSMax to set affinity for both cores. This rig allows me to play on highest settings in BlackShark.

 

In that case we have quite similar setup though I have the GTX 275 so I hope to get good results when I get my card.

[Feuerfalke]

AF means Anisotrophic Filtering.

 

Usually graphics-cards render only those textures really sharp that are "close" to the players position. The further away the textures, the more blured out the textures will be. Increasing AF forces the gfx-card to expand the range from the player the textures are rendered sharp. Of course this increases the workload for the gfx-card tremendously, especially on higher settings.

 

Left. Without AF / Right: With AF

 

FSAA stands for Full Screen Anti Aliasing.

 

There are different methods used to achieve this, but basically what it does it check each pixel for position, color and adjadent pixels to blend them into each other. This will blur the image a little more, but it will also eliminate the steps visible on angled lines and surfaces rendered. Logically, this increases workload not only by increasing the FSAA-Factor, but also by the resolution used, as this is pixel-dependend.

 

The upper picture shows a picture without FSAA, the lower with FSAA enabled. (Not the best example, as it looks too blury IMHO)

 

(Pictures from Wikipedia)

Edited August 10, 2009 by Feuerfalke

[petherf]

And this is another good site for overclocking

 

This is good reading:

 

http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/364149-can-my-q6600-overclocked.html

[Feuerfalke]

Overlcocking is a double-edged sword.

 

Yes, it can increase performance, especially in DCS, but you can also permamently damage your PC.

 

When manipulating your BOIS-Settings, especially the voltages-section, you should be aware of your CPU and Board-temperatures. It won't help you to just look at them in the BIOS-Health-System (if available), as idle-temperatures usually are MUCH lower than full load temperatures, of couse.

 

You also have to be aware, that C2D only takes overclocking well, if you deactivate functions like thermal throttling and idle-throttling. It is much more likely to crash your PC, if you don't disable them. But that means you use more energy, most likely all the time, even if you are running on idle and thus temperatures will further increase under load. A good ventilation of your coolers, board and the case as a whole is imperative.

 

And then, of course, you are doing this on your own risk. No warranty will cover damage done by overclocking your PC.

[Mr Pink]

i currently have a p43 neof motherboard, e8400 cpu @3ghz 4gb DDR2 and a HD2400 256mb card. i also currently have a 500 watt power supply and must get at least a 630 most likely get a 750-800 watt supply to run the gtx 295, was looking at getting the one by EVGA seen a couple of good reviews on them, thats my shopping list for the next month or 2 anyway

[Kirai]

AF means Anisotrophic Filtering.

 

Usually graphics-cards render only those textures really sharp that are "close" to the players position. The further away the textures, the more blured out the textures will be. Increasing AF forces the gfx-card to expand the range from the player the textures are rendered sharp. Of course this increases the workload for the gfx-card tremendously, especially on higher settings.

 

Left. Without AF / Right: With AF

 

FSAA stands for Full Screen Anti Aliasing.

 

There are different methods used to achieve this, but basically what it does it check each pixel for position, color and adjadent pixels to blend them into each other. This will blur the image a little more, but it will also eliminate the steps visible on angled lines and surfaces rendered. Logically, this increases workload not only by increasing the FSAA-Factor, but also by the resolution used, as this is pixel-dependend.

 

The upper picture shows a picture without FSAA, the lower with FSAA enabled. (Not the best example, as it looks too blury IMHO)

 

(Pictures from Wikipedia)

 

And this is another good site for overclocking

 

This is good reading:

 

http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/364149-can-my-q6600-overclocked.html

 

Thanks now I got it :D

 

Overlcocking is a double-edged sword.

 

Yes, it can increase performance, especially in DCS, but you can also permamently damage your PC.

 

When manipulating your BOIS-Settings, especially the voltages-section, you should be aware of your CPU and Board-temperatures. It won't help you to just look at them in the BIOS-Health-System (if available), as idle-temperatures usually are MUCH lower than full load temperatures, of couse.

 

You also have to be aware, that C2D only takes overclocking well, if you deactivate functions like thermal throttling and idle-throttling. It is much more likely to crash your PC, if you don't disable them. But that means you use more energy, most likely all the time, even if you are running on idle and thus temperatures will further increase under load. A good ventilation of your coolers, board and the case as a whole is imperative.

 

And then, of course, you are doing this on your own risk. No warranty will cover damage done by overclocking your PC.

 

Thanks for the warnings. I know this is at my own risk and I'm not planing to boost my cpu much, just from 3.0 to 3.6 Ghz but I will indeed be careful.

[EtherealN]

Be prepared to purchase a new CPU cooler though. :) Though they're not horribly expensive, got my Zalman 9700 for some 600 SEK at komplett.se and I am obscenely happy with it. (Though I did cut myself up a bit on those 0.1mm copper elements... >.< )

[Kirai]

Well I have been testing different configurations all day, 11 hours of work and I can't think of any more ways to do this. For me to get 3.6 Ghz I have to use a Vcore of 1.425v and an FSB of 400x9. If I get any higher in the Vcore I get a maxtemp on my cpu:s at 77 celsius when working at 96% and thats to high, I want it at 70 celsius or lower but even though I get a decent maxtemp with that configuration I get a fatal error in Prime95 when testing (fatal error rounding was 0.5 expected less then 0.4). I think this is a memory problem but I don't get it at default settings so something is not right. I think I give up for now :/

[EtherealN]

Make EXTREMELY certain that you followed the instructions on unlinking the memory from the FSB. If the BIOS has nothing on this, discontinue. Due to Intel and AMD locking the multipliers on their chips, the only way to overclock is through the FSB and this impacts RAM speed as well. If there's no unlinking there might be rescue in the form of manually selecting FSB>RAM ratios, but in this case be sure you're doing your maths and if not sure - discontinue.

 

But yes, if you are running on stock cooler temperature problems are to be expected. To compare, my E8500 running at 4GHz with that Zalman doesn't go above 55 degrees C when at 100percent load with Prime95 processes on both cores. Before I switched to the Zalman I had to cease testing real quick because my temps were shooting really fast towards the upper 80 degree levels. :P

 

Having to use that kind of vCore seems weird to me though (the only voltage I have changed in my system is the RAM voltage) and I would suggest you delay further tests until you have found some more sources relating to your specific hardware. Start with the motherboard is my idea - I got my MB specificially with overclocking in mind and I haven't had any issues that were not directly temperature-related and therefore expected. If you still intend to try this out, see if you can find more information about your motherboard as far as overclocking goes. (Mine is one of those where overclocking is one of the arguments the manufacturer makes for it.)

 

Or, of course, just consider yourself defeated and go with what you have. No shame in that. My system was tailored from the ground up of having overclocking fun and systems not constructed for that specific purpose might have varied mileage. :|

[Kirai]

Make EXTREMELY certain that you followed the instructions on unlinking the memory from the FSB. If the BIOS has nothing on this, discontinue. Due to Intel and AMD locking the multipliers on their chips, the only way to overclock is through the FSB and this impacts RAM speed as well. If there's no unlinking there might be rescue in the form of manually selecting FSB>RAM ratios, but in this case be sure you're doing your maths and if not sure - discontinue.

 

But yes, if you are running on stock cooler temperature problems are to be expected. To compare, my E8500 running at 4GHz with that Zalman doesn't go above 55 degrees C when at 100percent load with Prime95 processes on both cores. Before I switched to the Zalman I had to cease testing real quick because my temps were shooting really fast towards the upper 80 degree levels. :P

 

Having to use that kind of vCore seems weird to me though (the only voltage I have changed in my system is the RAM voltage) and I would suggest you delay further tests until you have found some more sources relating to your specific hardware. Start with the motherboard is my idea - I got my MB specificially with overclocking in mind and I haven't had any issues that were not directly temperature-related and therefore expected. If you still intend to try this out, see if you can find more information about your motherboard as far as overclocking goes. (Mine is one of those where overclocking is one of the arguments the manufacturer makes for it.)

 

Or, of course, just consider yourself defeated and go with what you have. No shame in that. My system was tailored from the ground up of having overclocking fun and systems not constructed for that specific purpose might have varied mileage. :|

 

Yes you are right I guess. I know that the P5K SE has its limitations, the normal P5K and deluxe variations is more into overclocking but then I have also read about many people that made it possible but I cant find just my configuration and people often just say that it worked for them but without any further explanation for a noob like me :). Well I tried playing DCS for a short while with the configuration that did not exeed the 70 celsius temp and with 3.6 Ghz and had no problems. Framerate went up about 10 FPS more or less but I dont like using a computer thats not entirely stable so I think I will go back to the default settings for now and tomorrow I hope with the GTX 275 Geforce I will get some improvment anyways.

 

Thanks for all your help and keep the sky safe :thumbup: