check procedures Rudder trim overeact durng taxing

[Ddg1500]

Hello, there is some rudder trim problem during ground taxing when then tail wheel unlock is selected.

I know when tail wheel unlcok selected, apache will be very sensitive in yaw even on ground, that's why it need to be immediately trimmed to prevent oversteer

And with the increase in collective to 30%rpm(as instructed in the tutorial), the increased torque will twist the aircraft to left or right.

It was at the moment that the rudder trim overreacted.

Here is my file

 

rudder trim taxi 3.miz rudder trim.miz taxi rudder trim .miz

[Ddg1500]

The problem is noting being solved, have anyone notice?

[Floyd1212]

Yes, the tail rotor is a mess. They are working on a now rotor model that will address the situation. No clue on when we will see it.

[Rogue Trooper]

On 7/11/2025 at 9:59 AM, Ddg1500 said:

Hello, there is some rudder trim problem during ground taxing when then tail wheel unlock is selected.

I know when tail wheel unlcok selected, apache will be very sensitive in yaw even on ground, that's why it need to be immediately trimmed to prevent oversteer

And with the increase in collective to 30%rpm(as instructed in the tutorial), the increased torque will twist the aircraft to left or right.

It was at the moment that the rudder trim overreacted.

Here is my file

 

rudder trim taxi 3.miz 1.06 MB · 0 downloads rudder trim.miz 1.85 MB · 0 downloads taxi rudder trim .miz 1.85 MB · 0 downloads

You need to push the right pedal forward (and hold the pedal) around 20 to 25 % in order to have no tail rotor thrust acting on the unlocked castor wheel. This will then allow you to drive forward in a straight line. If you leave the pedals neutrally balanced then the nose will swing left because it is being pushed that way by the tail rotor, the real Apache's tail rotor is biased this way by design, Pedals in the middle is NOT no tail rotor thrust.

When taking of into a hover: You should trim the cyclic slightly left and slightly back, pedals 20 - 25 % right forward.

when you start slowly Increasing the collective you should start slowly pushing forward the left pedal, the ratio of pedal to collective adjustment can actually be seen via the horizontal window frame just above the CPG's head, this is because you trimmed the cyclic slightly left and as you increase collective the rotor blades start pushing down on the left wheels suspension and this tilts the entire airframe left, push the left pedal forwards to balance the window frame level again. keep repeating collective pedals and all of a sudden you will slowly and beautifully drift into the air. (at take off I think you are around 10% left pedal forward (?))

Do you have analogue pedals, Twist stick or keyboard? 

Personally, I love the pedals in the Apache and have absolutely no problem with the yaw.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, Rogue Trooper said:

Do you have analogue pedals, Twist stick or keyboard? 

Very good question! I've never flown the DCS Apache with an FFB stick, a dedicated collective and high end pedals. I've never had any issues with it.  

[Rogue Trooper]

For sure keyboard controlled pedals must be a nightmare on the Apache... any helicopter really.

[Ddg1500]

16小时前，Rogue Trooper说：

You need to push the right pedal forward (and hold the pedal) around 20 to 25 % in order to have no tail rotor thrust acting on the unlocked castor wheel. This will then allow you to drive forward in a straight line. If you leave the pedals neutrally balanced then the nose will swing left because it is being pushed that way by the tail rotor, the real Apache's tail rotor is biased this way by design, Pedals in the middle is NOT no tail rotor thrust.

When taking of into a hover: You should trim the cyclic slightly left and slightly back, pedals 20 - 25 % right forward.

when you start slowly Increasing the collective you should start slowly pushing forward the left pedal, the ratio of pedal to collective adjustment can actually be seen via the horizontal window frame just above the CPG's head, this is because you trimmed the cyclic slightly left and as you increase collective the rotor blades start pushing down on the left wheels suspension and this tilts the entire airframe left, push the left pedal forwards to balance the window frame level again. keep repeating collective pedals and all of a sudden you will slowly and beautifully drift into the air. (at take off I think you are around 10% left pedal forward (?))

Do you have analogue pedals, Twist stick or keyboard? 

Personally, I love the pedals in the Apache and have absolutely no problem with the yaw.

virpil ACE spring loaded rudder, haven't change it for a considerable while

18小时前，Floyd1212说：

Yes, the tail rotor is a mess. They are working on a now rotor model that will address the situation. No clue on when we will see it.

Agree, hope they slove it someday, which already takes considerable while, i probably no going to fly ah64 until the issue got fixed

Edited July 14 by Ddg1500

[Floyd1212]

6 hours ago, Ddg1500 said:

, i probably no going to fly ah64 until the issue got fixed

I wouldn’t let that stop you from enjoying everything else the Apache has to offer.  It is annoying, but still very flyable. You learn to adapt and compensate.

I would also recommend removing the springs from your pedals. Flying helos without needing to trim the pedals is a game changer.

[Ddg1500]

19小时前，Floyd1212说：

I wouldn’t let that stop you from enjoying everything else the Apache has to offer.  It is annoying, but still very flyable. You learn to adapt and compensate.

I would also recommend removing the springs from your pedals. Flying helos without needing to trim the pedals is a game changer.

I decide to buy a rudder damper, will the damper help improve ah64 ground taxing?

[[DE] T-Bone]

25 minutes ago, Ddg1500 said:

I decide to buy a rudder damper, will the damper help improve ah64 ground taxing?

I would say so, because with the damping forces you can control things more precisely. At least, that’s my personal experience with my damped pedals...

[Ddg1500]

7分钟前，[DE] T-Bone说：

I would say so, because with the damping forces you can control things more precisely. At least, that’s my personal experience with my damped pedals...

If I remove the rudder springs, just only keep the damper while tighten up a bit, and set the rudder trim to other option, will the ground taxi rudder trimon ah64 be better?

[[DE] T-Bone]

4 minutes ago, Ddg1500 said:

If I remove the rudder springs, just only keep the damper while tighten up a bit, and set the rudder trim to other option, will the ground taxi rudder trimon ah64 be better?

It "could" get better for you, you just have to try it out and decide for yourself. For me, a damper brought more control, but that’s just my subjective opinion. 

[Ddg1500]

4分钟前，[DE] T-Bone说：

It "could" get better for you, you just have to try it out and decide for yourself. For me, a damper brought more control, but that’s just my subjective opinion. 

Okay, great thanks, but there is a problem, in ah64, when you trim the rudder, the control automatically consider you new rudder position as the new “center”, which is not that well simulated with damper, as it only keeps you in position instead of center it, how is that suppose to behave in damper?

Edited July 15 by Ddg1500

[Rogue Trooper]

Hi Ddg1500,

I also only use the damper on my MFG crosswinds (spring removed), I have set the damper to maximum on the "damping Knob" so that any inflight adjustments to yaw are smooth and deliberate. Also my pedals are BF-109 WWII pedals so my feet sit on them so it was important that my pedals were stiff to avoid accidental movement. Having said that I was surprised how stiff (but smooth) real life helicopter pedals are and I guess they do this to reduce the risk of pilot induced oscillation with the yaw pedals.

I set all DCS helicopters to no pedal Trim.

Hopefully you can re-install the springs quickly for winged flight. The MFG takes around 3 to 5 minutes to reinstall the springs and set the damper to a much lower setting.

Once they bring out the main rotor torque fix, this for sure will reduce the amount of pedal required to offset torque and especially reduce the crab the aircraft has.

Edited July 15 by Rogue Trooper

[[DE] T-Bone]

4 hours ago, Ddg1500 said:

Okay, great thanks, but there is a problem, in ah64, when you trim the rudder, the control automatically consider you new rudder position as the new “center”, which is not that well simulated with damper, as it only keeps you in position instead of center it, how is that suppose to behave in damper?

Please try the following procedure:

Pedals:

• Remove the centering spring from the pedals

• Install the damper
   

Flight:

• Special Options: Pedals without springs

• In straight and level flight, hold the FTR (Force Trim Release) button

• Use the pedals to bring the helicopter into aerodynamic trim

• Release the FTR button and leave the pedals in their current position

• Check if the yaw neutral point matches the current pedal position

In a helicopter, your pedals are "almost always" in an asymmetric position depending on flight condition and trim.


Watch this video series to understand how the trim works in the AH.

 

Edited July 15 by [DE] T-Bone
typo

[Ddg1500]

12分钟前，[DE] T-Bone说：

Please try the following procedure:

Pedals:

• Remove the centering spring from the pedals

• Install the damper
   

Flight:

• Special Options: Pedals without centering (or similar)

• In straight and level flight, hold the FTR (Force Trim Release) button

• Use the pedals to bring the helicopter into aerodynamic trim

• Release the FTR button and leave the pedals in their current position

• Check if the yaw neutral point matches the current pedal position

In a helicopter, your pedals are "almost always" in an asymmetric position depending on flight condition and trim.


Watch this video series to understand how the trim works in the AH.

 

Okay, I’ll try it when I got my damper, 

[Floyd1212]

Removing the spring and selecting the appropriate "Pedals without springs" mode in Special Options is the most important step.  Adding the damper on top of that improves precision and fluidity to your inputs.

Ground taxiing is very doable with minimal input of the pedals, and without a centering spring.  And make use of the tail wheel lock when you need to taxi in a straight line, then only unlock the tail when you need to actually make a turn.

[Ddg1500]

I've spoken for quite many times so i just cut short.

The rudder trim during ground taxing is still off, still overeact.

I would expect the a module this expensive to be pretty well polished, yet it still have such salient flaw.

So Please, fix it.

Here is my file

 

Ground taxi Trim 6 .trk

[razo+r]

2 minutes ago, Ddg1500 said:

I would expect the a module this expensive to be pretty well polished, yet it still have such salient flaw.

 

It seems you are missing a crutial detail that might help you manage your expectations a bit more: Early Access

[Ddg1500]

13分钟前，razo+r说：

It seems you are missing a crutial detail that might help you manage your expectations a bit more: Early Access

early access for 2 years means many problems have been ironed out, and yet it still happens

[razo+r]

2 hours ago, Ddg1500 said:

early access for 2 years means many problems have been ironed out, and yet it still happens

No, that's not what that means.

[Ddg1500]

2025/7/26 AM2点51分，razo+r说：

No, that's not what that means.

So i just still wait? for a imperfection that so salient?

Edited Sunday at 11:35 AM by Ddg1500