ILS questions

[Linition]

I can't figure out how it works. 

Often the assigned heading points at the airfield but sometimes it just doesn't.

Then sometimes when trying to switch to NAV I get a bank steering index but it still says ILS and I can't seem to switch out of it.

Then there is the issue of getting to the approach fix. Am I really expected to use a stop-watch to tell how far I have flown? Because F10 is just cheating and not part of the aircraft.

And then there is the issue of trying to figure out which ILS channel belongs to which airfield.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

That’s likely because the DCS: F-15C won’t be released until next year at the soonest.

At that time there will be documentation available that explains how it works.

 

We only have an extremely simplified version available in DCS now. The forum where to discuss and ask questions can be found here: https://forum.dcs.world/forum/249-f-15c-for-dcs-world/

[Linition]

37 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That’s likely because the DCS: F-15C won’t be released until next year at the soonest.

At that time there will be documentation available that explains how it works.

 

We only have an extremely simplified version available in DCS now. The forum where to discuss and ask questions can be found here: https://forum.dcs.world/forum/249-f-15c-for-dcs-world/

Huh?
It's not a beta product, it's just a low fidelity module.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Just now, Linition said:

It's not a beta product, it's just a low fidelity module.

You're posting in the forum for the upcoming full-fidelity module, which doesn't exist yet in DCS as shown on the previous page:

[BIGNEWY]

I will move to Flaming Cliffs F-15C 

2 hours ago, Linition said:

I can't figure out how it works. 

Often the assigned heading points at the airfield but sometimes it just doesn't.

Then sometimes when trying to switch to NAV I get a bank steering index but it still says ILS and I can't seem to switch out of it.

Then there is the issue of getting to the approach fix. Am I really expected to use a stop-watch to tell how far I have flown? Because F10 is just cheating and not part of the aircraft.

And then there is the issue of trying to figure out which ILS channel belongs to which airfield.

Hi, 

have you tried reading the manual which can be found in DCS World\Mods\aircraft\F-15C\Doc

there are also lots of great tutorials on youtube. 

if you are still struggling attach a short track replay example and we can try to assist you further. 

thank you 

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Linition said:

I can't figure out how it works. 

Often the assigned heading points at the airfield but sometimes it just doesn't.

Then sometimes when trying to switch to NAV I get a bank steering index but it still says ILS and I can't seem to switch out of it.

Then there is the issue of getting to the approach fix. Am I really expected to use a stop-watch to tell how far I have flown? Because F10 is just cheating and not part of the aircraft.

And then there is the issue of trying to figure out which ILS channel belongs to which airfield.

Maybe this will help you:

Each airfield has a unique course in F-15C (look at HSI) so you can know for sure what airfield you're looking at during ILS (HUD mode) waypoint selection. And here's the list:

(When there are two numbers, it's because the course display is somewhat between the two)

[cycle sequence order]

    Sochi:         062
    Krasnodar Pachkovsky: 047
    Sukhumi:         296-297
    Gudauta:         331
    Batumi:         125-126
    Senakhi:         095
    Kobuleti:         070
    Kutaisi:         074
    Mineralne Vody:     295-296
    Nalchik:         235-236
    Mozdok:         083
    Tbilisi:         308
    Soganlug:         132-133
    Vaziani:         135-136
    Beslan:         093-094
    Anapa:         041-042
    Krasnodar Center:     267
    Novorossiysk:     042
    Krymsk:         219-220
    Maykop-Khanskaya:     219
    Gelendzhik:     040

There are lists for other maps, ex.: 

As for using that as a makeshift TACAN, when in ILSN mode, you will get the distance from the airfield (runway threshold), and bearing pointer in the HSI will point to approach fix point lined up with the runway at distance of 5nm. Granted that doesn't make it a great precise TACAN, as the distance and bearing indication do not perfectly correlate (because they refer to a different point), but it's sufficient to fly acceptable DME Arcs.
However, it is not that great for TACAN approach, as it gives you a TACAN 5 miles from the airfield.
If you want to go direct to one airfield, select the correct airfield in ILSN mode based on its course, and use the bearing pointer to go there, while the range counter gives you the distance.

For the Non ILS airfields you get a Pseudo ILS. The HSI Bearing and CDU indicate a specific Rwy heading until 2-3nm then the CDI reverts to aircraft heading instead of course. The HUD FD + does give you steering to a 3 deg flight path though.

Anapa comes up course wise as 041.5 (Last digital drum halfway between 1 and 2) so might cause some confusion with Gelendzhik which is a solid 042. Though ATC and DR should be able to resolve this ambiguity.

So Airfields without a Western ILS all get an HSI Bearing and Range with valid CDI until 2-3nm. HUD FD provides valid steering to a 3 deg Glide Path to the threshold. ADI steering bars are inop in this case.

Airfields with a Western/ICAO ILS you get the lot including ADI steering. CDI is still porked inside 2-3nm as it too then reverts to aircraft heading rather than Course.

If you are still inside the "ILS envelope" area then switching back to NAV then ILS results in the previous ILS coming up. This "ILS envelope" is around 5nm.

Use radio menu to call Inbound to the airfield you want to land at. You'll get range and bearing to the approach fix point and active runway number. You can always ask again for the current bearing and range. They will also light up the runway for you at night.

[somewhat redacted by me, but I'm not the original author]

btw: F-15C Flaming Cliffs is not low fidelity - it's a module serie with full fidelity flight model and simplified standard avionics model with no ability to operate some systems nor clickable cockpit.

[Linition]

On 7/22/2025 at 8:39 AM, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

You're posting in the forum for the upcoming full-fidelity module, which doesn't exist yet in DCS as shown on the previous page:

Ah <profanity>, my bad.

[Linition]

On 7/22/2025 at 9:48 AM, draconus said:

Maybe this will help you:

Each airfield has a unique course in F-15C (look at HSI) so you can know for sure what airfield you're looking at during ILS (HUD mode) waypoint selection. And here's the list:

(When there are two numbers, it's because the course display is somewhat between the two)

[cycle sequence order]

    Sochi:         062
    Krasnodar Pachkovsky: 047
    Sukhumi:         296-297
    Gudauta:         331
    Batumi:         125-126
    Senakhi:         095
    Kobuleti:         070
    Kutaisi:         074
    Mineralne Vody:     295-296
    Nalchik:         235-236
    Mozdok:         083
    Tbilisi:         308
    Soganlug:         132-133
    Vaziani:         135-136
    Beslan:         093-094
    Anapa:         041-042
    Krasnodar Center:     267
    Novorossiysk:     042
    Krymsk:         219-220
    Maykop-Khanskaya:     219
    Gelendzhik:     040

There are lists for other maps, ex.: 

As for using that as a makeshift TACAN, when in ILSN mode, you will get the distance from the airfield (runway threshold), and bearing pointer in the HSI will point to approach fix point lined up with the runway at distance of 5nm. Granted that doesn't make it a great precise TACAN, as the distance and bearing indication do not perfectly correlate (because they refer to a different point), but it's sufficient to fly acceptable DME Arcs.
However, it is not that great for TACAN approach, as it gives you a TACAN 5 miles from the airfield.
If you want to go direct to one airfield, select the correct airfield in ILSN mode based on its course, and use the bearing pointer to go there, while the range counter gives you the distance.

For the Non ILS airfields you get a Pseudo ILS. The HSI Bearing and CDU indicate a specific Rwy heading until 2-3nm then the CDI reverts to aircraft heading instead of course. The HUD FD + does give you steering to a 3 deg flight path though.

Anapa comes up course wise as 041.5 (Last digital drum halfway between 1 and 2) so might cause some confusion with Gelendzhik which is a solid 042. Though ATC and DR should be able to resolve this ambiguity.

So Airfields without a Western ILS all get an HSI Bearing and Range with valid CDI until 2-3nm. HUD FD provides valid steering to a 3 deg Glide Path to the threshold. ADI steering bars are inop in this case.

Airfields with a Western/ICAO ILS you get the lot including ADI steering. CDI is still porked inside 2-3nm as it too then reverts to aircraft heading rather than Course.

If you are still inside the "ILS envelope" area then switching back to NAV then ILS results in the previous ILS coming up. This "ILS envelope" is around 5nm.

Use radio menu to call Inbound to the airfield you want to land at. You'll get range and bearing to the approach fix point and active runway number. You can always ask again for the current bearing and range. They will also light up the runway for you at night.

[somewhat redacted by me, but I'm not the original author]

btw: F-15C Flaming Cliffs is not low fidelity - it's a module serie with full fidelity flight model and simplified standard avionics model with no ability to operate some systems nor clickable cockpit.

I thought that's what low fidelity means. Simplified avionics. 
I know it uses the highest quality flight physics, but don't all ED planes?

This is a lot of nuance so I will have to practice at one airfield at a time and see if all the weird, confusing behavior makes sense or if there are any actual bugs left. 
Thanks a lot, it's going to take me a while to report back though... 

Edited 14 hours ago by Linition

[draconus]

Oh, it's even better than that since the active runway can change due to wind strength and direction (ATC will tell you which one is active). So you can get all reciprocal numbers to those above, ex. Vaziani can be either 135.5 or 315.5 in the next mission  So I advise to not make it your primary nav tool but use preconfigured waypoints instead, contact ATC and only confirm the RWY heading and range before the approach, to make sure you're using correct ILS where you want to land.

Yeah, simplified avionics but only you decide how realistic you want to go with it, ex. you can place WPTs in the places of radio beacons and TACAN stations and use them for DME arcs and radials nav for NTTR approaches/departures.

Edited 13 hours ago by draconus

[Linition]

57 minutes ago, draconus said:

Oh, it's even better than that since the active runway can change due to wind strength and direction (ATC will tell you which one is active). So you can get all reciprocal numbers to those above, ex. Vaziani can be either 135.5 or 315.5 in the next mission  So I advise to not make it your primary nav tool but use preconfigured waypoints instead, contact ATC and only confirm the RWY heading and range before the approach, to make sure you're using correct ILS where you want to land.

Yeah, simplified avionics but only you decide how realistic you want to go with it, ex. you can place WPTs in the places of radio beacons and TACAN stations and use them for DME arcs and radials nav for NTTR approaches/departures.

My problem is doing zero-visibility landings. 
Just flying a few circles around Rota seemed to make my ILS bug out. The assigned heading started pointing away from the airfield and into the void. I flew towards it for over 30nm checking if it might update on its own but nothing.

How can I do the more challenging instrument landings when I can't trust my instruments?

[Linition]

On 7/22/2025 at 9:48 AM, draconus said:

Maybe this will help you:

Each airfield has a unique course in F-15C (look at HSI) so you can know for sure what airfield you're looking at during ILS (HUD mode) waypoint selection. And here's the list:

(When there are two numbers, it's because the course display is somewhat between the two)

[cycle sequence order]

    Sochi:         062
    Krasnodar Pachkovsky: 047
    Sukhumi:         296-297
    Gudauta:         331
    Batumi:         125-126
    Senakhi:         095
    Kobuleti:         070
    Kutaisi:         074
    Mineralne Vody:     295-296
    Nalchik:         235-236
    Mozdok:         083
    Tbilisi:         308
    Soganlug:         132-133
    Vaziani:         135-136
    Beslan:         093-094
    Anapa:         041-042
    Krasnodar Center:     267
    Novorossiysk:     042
    Krymsk:         219-220
    Maykop-Khanskaya:     219
    Gelendzhik:     040

There are lists for other maps, ex.: 

As for using that as a makeshift TACAN, when in ILSN mode, you will get the distance from the airfield (runway threshold), and bearing pointer in the HSI will point to approach fix point lined up with the runway at distance of 5nm. Granted that doesn't make it a great precise TACAN, as the distance and bearing indication do not perfectly correlate (because they refer to a different point), but it's sufficient to fly acceptable DME Arcs.
However, it is not that great for TACAN approach, as it gives you a TACAN 5 miles from the airfield.
If you want to go direct to one airfield, select the correct airfield in ILSN mode based on its course, and use the bearing pointer to go there, while the range counter gives you the distance.

For the Non ILS airfields you get a Pseudo ILS. The HSI Bearing and CDU indicate a specific Rwy heading until 2-3nm then the CDI reverts to aircraft heading instead of course. The HUD FD + does give you steering to a 3 deg flight path though.

Anapa comes up course wise as 041.5 (Last digital drum halfway between 1 and 2) so might cause some confusion with Gelendzhik which is a solid 042. Though ATC and DR should be able to resolve this ambiguity.

So Airfields without a Western ILS all get an HSI Bearing and Range with valid CDI until 2-3nm. HUD FD provides valid steering to a 3 deg Glide Path to the threshold. ADI steering bars are inop in this case.

Airfields with a Western/ICAO ILS you get the lot including ADI steering. CDI is still porked inside 2-3nm as it too then reverts to aircraft heading rather than Course.

If you are still inside the "ILS envelope" area then switching back to NAV then ILS results in the previous ILS coming up. This "ILS envelope" is around 5nm.

Use radio menu to call Inbound to the airfield you want to land at. You'll get range and bearing to the approach fix point and active runway number. You can always ask again for the current bearing and range. They will also light up the runway for you at night.

[somewhat redacted by me, but I'm not the original author]

btw: F-15C Flaming Cliffs is not low fidelity - it's a module serie with full fidelity flight model and simplified standard avionics model with no ability to operate some systems nor clickable cockpit.

I have to ask...

How much of this is normal in aviation and how much is unique to DCS and/or its F-15C due to the simplified avionics?