MIG-29A BVR - how to force enemy aircraft down low?

[The Gryphon]

Hi guys, I was watching this excellent video how sneak up on enemy aircraft 

But what if the enemy aircraft is really up high, perhaps at 20 000 - 30 000 feet, how do I force them down below 15 000 feet? Or how can I sneak up on a enemy aircraft operating at high altitude without being detected on his radar? 

Edited Sunday at 05:19 PM by The Gryphon

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, The Gryphon said:

Hi guys, I was watching this excellent video how sneak up on enemy aircraft 

But what if the enemy aircraft is really up high, perhaps at 20 000 - 30 000 feet, how do I force them down below 15 000 feet? Or how can I sneak up on a enemy aircraft operating at high altitude without being detected on his radar? 

Sta low and come up behind him or from his 9 '0 clock where his radar can't see you?

[The Gryphon]

10 hours ago, Ironhand said:

Sta low and come up behind him or from his 9 '0 clock where his radar can't see you?

Yes that is a great idea! I am thinking sneaking low under him, to avoid his radar, then as I pass under him, I go full afterburner straight up to high altitude and attack from his 6. 

Many pilots BVR from high altitude, a serious drawback is that you are clearly painted against a big blue sky.

[wcdiver]

I'm staying low and try to acquire enemy visually, then once he's on top of me I'm climbing to get on his six and shoot some R-73s or lock him with radar close combat mode to use R-27Rs. Same tactics that I've used in MIG-21.

For BVR I identify my enemy first (via AWACS). If it is a modern jet like F-16 I just don't bother fighting him with this technique, because MIG-29s chances of survival are slim to none. But harassing some ground pounders or older/equivalent planes? That can be done.

 

/edit not AWACS but GCI on multiplayer servers. 

Edited Monday at 07:21 AM by wcdiver

[The Gryphon]

4 hours ago, wcdiver said:

I'm staying low and try to acquire enemy visually, then once he's on top of me I'm climbing to get on his six and shoot some R-73s or lock him with radar close combat mode to use R-27Rs. Same tactics that I've used in MIG-21.

For BVR I identify my enemy first (via AWACS). If it is a modern jet like F-16 I just don't bother fighting him with this technique, because MIG-29s chances of survival are slim to none. But harassing some ground pounders or older/equivalent planes? That can be done.

 

/edit not AWACS but GCI on multiplayer servers. 

Any idea how to fight the F-16 from BVR, must be some tactic that can be used? Spam missiles, make him defensive?

[Dača]

19 minutes ago, The Gryphon said:

Any idea how to fight the F-16 from BVR, must be some tactic that can be used? Spam missiles, make him defensive?

You can't.

It all comes down to situation. But in fair fight you can't beat F-16 from 2007. using 80's tech. If F-16 had sparrows then you can beat it, sure.

[TheFreshPrince]

Have you tried the tactic where you constantly notch the enemy in a 90 degree position but also fly very slow and low? It could work to get the enemy closer. 

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, TheFreshPrince said:

Have you tried the tactic where you constantly notch the enemy in a 90 degree position but also fly very slow and low? It could work to get the enemy closer. 

You would have to use EWR to notch since SPO won’t help

[TheFreshPrince]

Well you probably fly head on first, so you know the direction he's coming from and then you can visually crank 90° using terrain features and heading. Maybe takes some practice to adjust into a slight curve while he's getting closer, but it's possible to hold a notch even without EWR/RWR/SPO or whatever. But I haven't tried this tactic with the new MIG-29, only with the FC3 variants. So I don't know if it still works. Especially without chaff...

Edited 20 hours ago by TheFreshPrince

[CrazyGman]

4 hours ago, TheFreshPrince said:

Well you probably fly head on first, so you know the direction he's coming from and then you can visually crank 90° using terrain features and heading. Maybe takes some practice to adjust into a slight curve while he's getting closer, but it's possible to hold a notch even without EWR/RWR/SPO or whatever. But I haven't tried this tactic with the new MIG-29, only with the FC3 variants. So I don't know if it still works. Especially without chaff...

Well you do still have chaff in the 29. So no worries there.

[RyanR]

I feel like 50% of the time, AWACS isn't anywhere near as good as it is in that video. When you need it most, it's not there.

-Ryan 

[AeriaGloria]

They will be forced down when you blow them up!