How to actually fly a helicopter?

[Tasky]

On 9/30/2025 at 4:28 PM, Yurgon said:

One easy way to share your progress with us is to do a short flight, demo your takeoff problems, and then after quitting the mission, hit "Save Track" and share that .trk file with us (maybe via Google Drive/OneDrive etc. if it's too big for the forum). That track recording allows us to virtually look over your shoulder and give some more specific advice.

Prepare yourselves - This is going to be embarrassingly abysmal...

 

TaskyGazTrg1.trk

 

On 9/30/2025 at 8:01 PM, TFS said:

Also, if you have VR, or can stomach and afford it and your PC can run it well. It's basically a cheat code for helos, full depth perception and can get the sense of vertical reference. 

I have an old CV-1 Vive and I decided to give that a go... It did make situational awareness much easier, though I still didn't have much control over the aircraft. I also found it hard not to just reach out and touch the controls, such was the immersion. Firing weapons was great, looking outside and seeing the rotor swash arms actually move was great, and it all went well until I had to start rolling the aircraft into turns.... BLEURGGGGHH!!! Auto-Hover was similarly nauseating, as it suddenly wibbled all around. 

Ultimately though, this headset is pretty useless as I don't have the resolution to read text, so can't see any instruments without putting my nose 2" from the dashboard. Damn good fun, though!

 

On 9/30/2025 at 9:56 PM, Hiob said:

Your pickup problem sounds to me as if you haven’t mastered the coordination between inputs yet. You can‘t stop doing one while adjusting the other. The more collective you apply, the more anti torque pedal you need to give etc. That‘s not a shortcoming, just a lack of practice.

Try to apply a curve to the cyclic to make it less responsive around the middle position. Make use of trim (and check the different trim options in the special options).

For all the helicopters we have in dcs, the cyclic must be pulled back (about half an inch) for vertical pickup. (and a quarter inch to the left or right, depending on the the direction of your main rotor). Trim it in this position before trying to lift of. Your necessary corrections on the Stick (depending on length) should be mm rather than cm…..

I think there are two main issues...

Firstly as TFS said, I can't (or don't know enough to) recognise what's going on, so can't apply whatever the correct inputs should be. I also find that whenever I'm watching the instruments to make sure I'm at the right levels, the stuff outside goes to rat-spit, and vice-versa!!

Secondly, my WinWing stick is so very, very light around the central 2" that the slightest touch can have you at half deflection and you can't physically feel any difference from zero. I don't really want to set a 50% deadzone, but the idea of using "pressure rather than movement" (as the aforementioned British Army guy said) only works if there's pressure to push against. I might need to change the cams, or fiddle with the dampers perhaps?

I may also need to reconfigure my chair setup, as the weight of my feet on the pedals create stiction and fine control is abysmal. 

[Hiob]

45 minutes ago, Tasky said:

I think there are two main issues...

Firstly as TFS said, I can't (or don't know enough to) recognise what's going on, so can't apply whatever the correct inputs should be. I also find that whenever I'm watching the instruments to make sure I'm at the right levels, the stuff outside goes to rat-spit, and vice-versa!!

Secondly, my WinWing stick is so very, very light around the central 2" that the slightest touch can have you at half deflection and you can't physically feel any difference from zero. I don't really want to set a 50% deadzone, but the idea of using "pressure rather than movement" (as the aforementioned British Army guy said) only works if there's pressure to push against. I might need to change the cams, or fiddle with the dampers perhaps?

I may also need to reconfigure my chair setup, as the weight of my feet on the pedals create stiction and fine control is abysmal. 

Don't look at your instruments while picking up. Outside references are far more important and easy to pick up.
This pressure rather than movement is the weirdest advise (for helicopters, at least in the sim world) I think I ever heard. Helicopter controls are light and often have no recentering spring at all (for a reason). I would also advise against a deadzone for helicopters. There is no distinct center position for a cyclic, so where is the deadzone supposed to be?
 

Try to flatten the response curves for pitch and roll a bit. That may help with fine control around the middle. But keep it at bay. Maybe 10% max 20%.

Make sure you do it slow.

Have you tried the trim options?

Edited 12 hours ago by Hiob
choice of words

[MAXsenna]

When picking up or hovering. Look forward at an angle of 45° and it will be much easier to see the drift direction(s).

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Tasky]

2 hours ago, Hiob said:

This pressure rather than movement is the weirdest advise (for helicopters, at least in the sim world) I think I ever heard.

Have you tried the trim options?

The pressure thing was a British Army instructor teaching new pilots to take off/hover in their first Gazelle lesson, in a 1990s documentary. I figured he'd know what he was talking about...

I already have no curve set, nor any saturation. It's all on default, +/- zero. I'll have a play with the trim later tonight... and try not to look at my dashboard!

[Hiob]

10 minutes ago, Tasky said:

The pressure thing was a British Army instructor teaching new pilots to take off/hover in their first Gazelle lesson, in a 1990s documentary. I figured he'd know what he was talking about...

I already have no curve set, nor any saturation. It's all on default, +/- zero. I'll have a play with the trim later tonight... and try not to look at my dashboard!

I'm not so sure if the real world methods are applicable to a Joystick in front of or on top of a desk....
Trust me on that. The less resistence your stick offers, the better for helicopter flying.
Ideally you would have a stick that has no/little/adjustable spring re-centering force and holds every postion you put it in (like a real world cyclic would), but that would need a FFB-Device like the VP Rhino of FFBeast (or the frinckin' Moza). VERY recommendable - but VERY expensive as well....  

With a common spring loaded joystick, it is vital, that you choose the right trimming mode in the special options and learn how it works!

You DON'T want to fight the stick!

Edited 10 hours ago by Hiob

[drPhibes]

Some tips:

Input:

When learning the basics of hovering, you'll never need the full travel of the stick, so reducing the Y saturation on both the pitch and roll axis and/or adding a curve helps a lot (especially in twitchy birds like the Gazelle). Then you can just dial the settings back when you feel like you are starting to master the basics.

Trim:

First of all, configure your trimmer. The Gazelle has a trim hat on the cyclic in addition to the traditional magnetic brake that most helicopters have, so you can use both. Generally, I use the magnetic brake when doing stuff like transitioning from hover to forwards flight (or vice versa), and the hat for fine tuning (either in a hover of in ff). I have a non-ffb stick (Orion2 ViperAce Ex) and use the "Instant" cyclic trim type in the special options. This is the same as the "Default" mode mentioned in vsTerminus' excellent Mi8 video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt8-BkGShTw)

Regarding the helicopters themselves, perhaps the most important thing to know is that no helicopter in DCS is trimmed for a hover when the stick is centered. In the Gazelle I generally trim to the rear and left, so that the top and right points of the diamond touch the vertical and horizontal lines in the control indicator. I don't like pedal trim, but the red line at the bottom shows a good pedal input for a IGE hover with no yaw:

 

Edited 8 hours ago by drPhibes

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, drPhibes said:

Input:

When learning the basics of hovering, you'll never need the full travel of the stick, so reducing the Y saturation on both the pitch and roll axis and/or adding a curve helps a lot (especially in twitchy birds like the Gazelle). Then you can just dial the settings back when you feel like you are starting to master the basics.

Fair points! Depends! Personally I have never used curves or saturation nor deadzones in any module, because I tend to pick up bad habits. (I do have some saturation/deadzones for my collective to ensure I reach both endpoints. Also the "throttle" in the Gazelle needs to be able to get at 100%). So this is a personal preference. Extensions and the stick between your legs makes hovering much easier. 

And beware. DCS does not support curves/saturation changes with FFB. 

I have FFB, so I often fly with the magnetic brake off. I usually only use it when I hover and trim. 

1 hour ago, drPhibes said:

I have a non-ffb stick (Orion2 ViperAce Ex) and use the "Instant" cyclic trim type in the special options. This is the same as the "Default" mode mentioned in vsTerminus' excellent Mi8 video

Interesting. Why? As the correct option for you should be "without springs and FFB". The "Default" is for instant trimming and FFB.

1 hour ago, drPhibes said:

Regarding the helicopters themselves, perhaps the most important thing to know is that no helicopter in DCS is trimmed for a hover when the stick is centered

Excellent advice!  

[Hiob]

I should clarify that by trim I meant force trim aka re-centering the middle point. (See special options for things like “Instant trim” etc….)

The incremental 4-way trimmer is something different and can be used for fine trim once in a stable attitude.

But force trim is far more important (imho)

[drPhibes]

23 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Interesting. Why? As the correct option for you should be "without springs and FFB". The "Default" is for instant trimming and FFB.

 

No, the "without springs and FFB" option (which is labelled "none" in the gazelle options) is definitely not the right trim for a regular stick with centering springs. Of the four options available in the Gazelle, it's the only one that's not usable at all, since it does nothing to the trim in the game. It's meant to activate force trim in the physical stick, for devices that have such fancy features.

[MAXsenna]

No, the "without springs and FFB" option (which is labelled "none" in the gazelle options) is definitely not the right trim for a regular stick with centering springs. Of the four options available in the Gazelle, it's the only one that's not usable at all, since it does nothing to the trim in the game. It's meant to activate force trim in the physical stick, for devices that have such fancy features.

I misread, I thought you had a non-centering, non-FFB base.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[tekwoj]

42 minutes ago, drPhibes said:

No, the "without springs and FFB" option (which is labelled "none" in the gazelle options) is definitely not the right trim for a regular stick with centering springs. Of the four options available in the Gazelle, it's the only one that's not usable at all, since it does nothing to the trim in the game. It's meant to activate force trim in the physical stick, for devices that have such fancy features.

In my experience the none option does what it says, it sets no trim and the magnetic brake remains in the center position, not in the newly set position (probably has to do with polychop's implementation of magnetic brake combined with manual trimming), so your ffb stick is centered and you can't do anything.

For ffb sticks the option that works better is instant trim, the option that works best is flying with magnetic brake off.

[Yurgon]

12 hours ago, Tasky said:

Prepare yourselves - This is going to be embarrassingly abysmal...

Thanks for the track!

I don't know if it played back correctly, but all things considered I'd say this looked fairly controlled, and you're almost there.

What I saw was you picked a collective setting that just wouldn't allow the helicopter to get airborne; most of the time I saw the Gazelle skidding across the ground. Is that what happened when you recorded the track?

If so, I'd highly recommend to give the collective just a nudge more pull to really get airborne into a low-level hover. Once the skids are off the ground, your oscillations will probably become bigger, but as long as at least one skid is still on the ground, you'll be fighting both the helicopter and the ground friction. As soon as you are really airborne, the fun begins.

Naturally, the helicopter will do something, then you react a bit late and overcompensate, and now the helo does the opposite of what it had just been doing, you react and over-correct and you get into a classical case of pilot-induced-oscillations. We've all been there - at least I know I have.

So with training and experience you begin to anticipate what the helo will be doing, and you learn to provide smaller inputs, and to counter-correct your own inputs before the helo does something you don't want it to do, and all of a sudden it clicks. Maybe that'll be tomorrow, maybe that'll be 3 weeks from now. Keep practicing, and get a good night's sleep in between sessions - the real  learning happens when we sleep.

12 hours ago, Tasky said:

I also find that whenever I'm watching the instruments to make sure I'm at the right levels, the stuff outside goes to rat-spit, and vice-versa!!

Like the others said, for a low-level hover, forget the instruments. Maybe keep half an eye on the torque gauge just so you don't actually over-torque it. And other helos with a digital radar altimeter, half an eye on the rad-alt will help a bit as well. But hovering is 99% a visual thing using outside references.

12 hours ago, Tasky said:

Secondly, my WinWing stick is so very, very light around the central 2" that the slightest touch can have you at half deflection and you can't physically feel any difference from zero.

Lots of things you can experiment with:

• different cams with more centering force
• higher or lower spring tension (if this can be adjusted on your stick-base)
• reduced axis saturation in DCS (the extremes are cut, so your physical stick travel translates to less in-game stick travel)
• positive axis curve in DCS (virtual stick travel is reduced near the center and exaggerated near the edges of your physical stick travel)

It's also perfectly normal - yet not at all desired - to hold the stick in a death-grip. Been there, done that. Make it a conscious decision to hold the stick lightly. You can actually try to hold it with two fingers rather than gripping it with your whole hand, at least in the beginning, until you get a better feel for the helicopter and muscle memory starts to set in.

-----

And then there's trim. Perfectly natural in a real helicopter (force trim just sets the "center" position of the stick), but a bit odd in DCS, because trim does nothing at all to your physical stick (unless it's an FFB-stick, but I understand yours is not), but it does set the new center position for the virtual stick.

There are several strategies to deal with this (Settings -> Special -> SA-342 -> Cyclic Trim Type):

• None: Hitting the "Trimmer" command doesn't do anything
• Instant: Instantly adjusts the virtual stick center position to the current virtual position. Since your physical stick is still deflected, the physical deflection will be added to the virtual center position, so you get a "trim bump". Requires very quick re-centering of your physical stick in order to keep the trim bump small.
• Fade In/Fade Out: Instantly adjusts the virtual stick center position to the current virtual position - but unlike the "Instant" setting, your physical deflection gets added slowly. Gives you time to recenter your physical stick and greatly reduces the "trim bump".
• Central Position Mode: Instantly adjusts the virtual stick center position to the current virtual position. However, your physical stick gets completely ignored until it's been centered on both roll and pitch. Pro: No trim bump whatsoever. Con: You're locked out of your Cyclic control until you center it. Has been the cause of death for many a virtual pilot, but is otherwise a pretty good setting.

Personally I use a stick with 10 cm extension, DCS saturation 100%, no DCS curve, and the "Fade In/Fade Out" trimmer setting. But obviously you need to find the setting that works best for you.

-----

Keep us posted on your progress!