Good news for those with Nvidia still on the fence about Linux

[Envee]

On 10/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, Dangerzone said:

One of the big hurdles I see though with Linux is people deciding which Distro to use. So many people seem to be using so many distro's - I think that actually holds Linux back at times. I mean - which Distro is the best for people to migrate from Windows to? Is there one that stands out as being obvious, or is it very much a free-for-all? 

Try some. Try a few. Try them all. Dont even need to install to have a look. They can run inside a USB stick. If you do want to install....take windows drive physically out of computer. Leave in the drive you want to have linux on. Install linux and update then shut down. Physically install the windows drive again.

Keep the linux boot loader off of partition 1 on drive 1 and let it get installed on its own drive - you do this by having one single drive in the system to install on so it cant install the boot loader on the windows drive...which it does by default. If you dont then it gets installed on the windows drive and then troubles begin when M$ messes that partition up and then you cant boot at all. Neither OS will function when M$ chucks it up. And they will.

Most middle ranged MOBO's now have 2 M2 slots, so perfect for dual booters. Windows on one. Linux on the other.

Mint was fairly easy for me to get my head around. The look and feel is similar to windows, as is the UI. Most linux users would say to use Mint first. I use Nobara.

If you are a gamer though with modern hardware, even if you use nvidia, i would suggest Nobara. Apps necessary for linux gaming are installed and configured already. Just install steam, download your games or use a backup, then play. Just using steam and proton. No messing about with settings. Noob friendly. It shares many short cuts with windows. Look and feel is also similar. If you have all AMD hardware then your linux experience will be even easier. AMD drivers are already built into the kernel unlike the hack job that nvidia uses to get their drivers to work in linux. Both AMD and Nvidia are fine to use in linux and i have used both with no issues. Nvida has closed drivers so they need to do their things differently. I used my 3060 12 GB to game on linux. To use nvidia with nobara you just choose a different ISO where it all set up already. 

Nobara offers pre-configured and apps necessary for gaming are all loaded into the different ISO they offer. 

E.g. Nvidia with gnome desktop. Nvidia with cinnamon desktop. Nvidia with KDE desktop. They offer 9 different ISO's to suit your hardware and likes.

People here do not even have the up to date stats for linux users. We are now at %6, not the claimed %2.5 or whatever i read above. That figure is most likely low balling it. That %6 number comes from the US government itself, when they count people using google analytics on official US government sites.

Linux is used in greater numbers in poorer nations since they do not have to play for the OS but can still game on steam. They dont use US government sites.

Privacy aware people also hide their browser identifiers as these can be used to track you. This makes linux users not appear as linux users on government sites, so they do not get counted even though they are using linux.

All i am saying is that the number of users, i think, is more than the %6.

Windows 10 is dead. That number will rise now. In a years time it will rise again when 10 truly reaches end of life. Its on life support at the moment. For a year. Then its dead.

[Envee]

On 10/27/2025 at 11:25 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

None of that changes the fact that Linux is not going to be a mainstream consumer OS in the near future. Why's that? Microsoft has a tight grip on OEMs. That means everyone who doesn't buy a Mac will, by default, use Windows, unless some sort of Linux lobby comes around to pull OEMs off it.

In that case, you probably encountered a much bemoaned, but somehow indispensable species called the Non-Technical End User, or luser for short. Among their exploits are things such as power cycling the monitor when asked to reboot, immediately closing popups with vital information, or accidently deleting important documents. When undisturbed, they're generally capable of accomplishing simple tasks in Office, using the web browser or playing modern games. I'd like to know how you envision this species making a move to Linux at scale.

Like I said in the other thread, MS had been doing that since MS DOS. Linux might be gaining in the server market because servers are, generally, not bought off the shelf and set up with whatever OS came in the box. They're also set up by people whose IT skills extend beyond installing Chrome. Consumer hardware is, for most part, used with whatever OS had been shipped with it. Now, much of the community here runs custom gaming boxes festooned with exotic peripherals and optimized up the wazoo, but that's not exactly the norm.

M$ caught flak for bundling IE with the OS/computer. Google is taking flak and significant heat now for demanding phone manufacturer's bundle andriod and by proxy firefox. Who knows what M$ demands from hardware makers in order to use their OS but i bet there are more stings attached than we know about. Those strings might be illegal if they are forcing factories to bundle the OS. If you stop giving consumers a choice that tends to have consequences. We might see hardware being sold without an OS in the future. Pick your OS when you get home

I would ask the user to shut the computer down and then restart it. This is the way to do it. Dont use "big words" KISS. At least this is what was demanded of me, when i was studying for my certs. Even people on the other end of the phone can be talked though very complex tasks. Dont treat them like an idiot and explain things in terms they can understand.

The internet as you know it. Is run by and on, linux servers. linux servers have this corner of the market all to themselves. It is a monopoly. I would guess at least 2/3 or %65 of all computers that "serve" you the "net" are linux.. Maybe even more. 

Look. If people want to stay on windows. Cool. No sweat off of my back. I know why i left and that does not mean i have to force people to accept the same reasons and change. When people get sick of being abused by M$ maybe then is the time for people to leave. Some people just do not care about what it is that M$ plans and do already. They have been conditioned to accept those terms. Not me

[Dragon1-1]

3 minutes ago, Envee said:

If you stop giving consumers a choice that tends to have consequences. We might see hardware being sold without an OS in the future. Pick your OS when you get home

Err... there's already plenty of hardware being sold without an OS, you know that? Literally anything that isn't a complete, ready to go OEM machine will require you to install the OS of your choice. Leaving the OS out of a complete build makes about as much sense as leaving the storage out. Yes, a more discerning customer might want to chose their own HDD/SSD configuration (or transplant one from a previous computer, it's gotten surprisingly painless with Windows 10). If that's your use case, go right ahead. Most people, including many gamers, don't need this sort of thing.

There's nothing illegal about offering OEMs preferential package deals on Windows. People choose to have an OS preinstalled, and if you do want Windows, it's much cheaper than buying it separately (though it's not like cheap OEM keys are hard to come by). It's just that they can't choose an option to have Linux already there. They're free to install it later, but they have to actively decide to do so, and figure out a way to actually do that. In fact, notice that despite MS getting into trouble for bundling IE, it remained until late Windows 10 builds (funnily enough, I actually used it instead of early Edge a few times).

3 minutes ago, Envee said:

I would ask the user to shut the computer down and then restart it. This is the way to do it. 

They'll turn the monitor off then back on, and swear up and down it's the computer. People do this even today. Sounds like you didn't really support any actual lusers. Lucky you. 

You won't believe the elementary things that nevertheless seem to baffle the normies. Most people today have grown up with smartphones, concepts like local versus cloud storage ("why are pictures from my phone not on my work laptop?"), folders (ever seen one of their desktops?), manual saving, programs that actually close when you click the big X, are scary and foreign to them. The brighter ones can be taught. The dimmer ones will say "I'm not technical" and that's the end of it.

26 minutes ago, Envee said:

The internet as you know it. Is run by and on, linux servers. linux servers have this corner of the market all to themselves. It is a monopoly. I would guess at least 2/3 or %65 of all computers that "serve" you the "net" are linux.. Maybe even more. 

It's not a "monopoly" if various Linuxes have less than 60% of the market to themselves. In truth, WindowsServer seems to have something like 44% of server market, and the remaining 8% are still stuck on various UNIXes. Servers are also irrelevant to this discussion because of the reasons I already mentioned. People don't exactly walk into an IBM store and buy an S1012 all set up and ready to go. People who do set up servers are supposed to know what they're doing.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Envee said:

People here do not even have the up to date stats for linux users. We are now at %6, not the claimed %2.5 or whatever i read above.

For the PC gaming demographic that matters here, it’s 2.68%

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

[Envee]

13 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Err... there's already plenty of hardware being sold without an OS, you know that? Literally anything that isn't a complete, ready to go OEM machine will require you to install the OS of your choice. Leaving the OS out of a complete build makes about as much sense as leaving the storage out. Yes, a more discerning customer might want to chose their own HDD/SSD configuration (or transplant one from a previous computer, it's gotten surprisingly painless with Windows 10). If that's your use case, go right ahead. Most people, including many gamers, don't need this sort of thing.

There's nothing illegal about offering OEMs preferential package deals on Windows. People choose to have an OS preinstalled, and if you do want Windows, it's much cheaper than buying it separately (though it's not like cheap OEM keys are hard to come by). It's just that they can't choose an option to have Linux already there. They're free to install it later, but they have to actively decide to do so, and figure out a way to actually do that. In fact, notice that despite MS getting into trouble for bundling IE, it remained until late Windows 10 builds (funnily enough, I actually used it instead of early Edge a few times).

They'll turn the monitor off then back on, and swear up and down it's the computer. People do this even today. Sounds like you didn't really support any actual lusers. Lucky you. 

You won't believe the elementary things that nevertheless seem to baffle the normies. Most people today have grown up with smartphones, concepts like local versus cloud storage ("why are pictures from my phone not on my work laptop?"), folders (ever seen one of their desktops?), manual saving, programs that actually close when you click the big X, are scary and foreign to them. The brighter ones can be taught. The dimmer ones will say "I'm not technical" and that's the end of it.

It's not a "monopoly" if various Linuxes have less than 60% of the market to themselves. In truth, WindowsServer seems to have something like 44% of server market, and the remaining 8% are still stuck on various UNIXes. ServerAre you claiming that uses are able to use power point, word and exel but not know how to shut down a s are also irrelevant to this discussion because of the reasons I already mentioned. People don't exactly walk into an IBM store and buy an S1012 all set up and ready to go. People who do set up servers are supposed to know what they're doing.

I stated i would describe how to do things and that includes shutting the computer down, and here is the important bit, if necessary.

Go argue with somebody else please. You seem to want to argue and since i dont like your tone i am declining to engage.. So, off you go to your own little corner and find somebody who will engage you, just the way you want. It wont be me!

I have better things to do with my time than argue with two people who have a combined post count over 13.000 and want to interpret official govenment statistics to suit their own needs. You two like to argue. Fine . Do it without me.

Linux uptake is at %6. Dont like that number as you feel threatened by it somehow? Not my problem.

I stopped reading your drivel about half way though. 

 

[Dragon1-1]

19 minutes ago, Envee said:

Linux uptake is at %6. Dont like that number as you feel threatened by it somehow? Not my problem.

I'm just saying you shouldn't get your hopes up based on the 6% figure, and pointing out significant barriers to it increasing much further. It's funny how Linux acolytes get defensive when it's pointed out why their dream FOSS-dominated future, which had been just around the corner since the 90s, might fail to materialize. Of course, if you look at it another way, counting all consumer devices, Linux is winning by a huge margin - the most popular distro is actually Android, which blows every other OS out of the water by sheer number of devices sold. The only problem, it's about as far from FOSS as you can be while still using the code. Almost as ironic as Unix of yore spawning MacOSX and the associated Apple's walled garden.

Funny how you don't like my "tone", where all I said was simply an in-depth refutation of every point that you made. Yeah, I can be snarky and sarcastic sometimes (make that most of the time). You'll generally find that constructive arguments, or proposing real solutions to the obstacles I point out, will shift the sarcasm to meritum ratio towards the latter (though I reserve the right to mock those who turn off their brains the moment a dialog window pops up). I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I genuinely want to know whether you can come up with a realistic way to overcome the stated issues.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Envee said:

Linux uptake is at %6. Dont like that number as you feel threatened by it somehow? Not my problem.

Again that’s not the number that’s relevant to PC gaming. It’s not a matter of liking or disliking. Simply a fact. Overall many people use OSX too. But in this market sector that number is 1.91% 

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

If you like using Linux that’s fine. But thinking it’s going to replace Windows or reach any significant share of this segment is really farfetched. It might be hard to believe from inside your echo chamber but the vast majority of people probably just don’t care or understand your gripes enough to justify switching. 

[Dragon1-1]

Essentially, the big problem with Linux is also the exact thing that draws people to it: there's no big corporation pushing it. So it doesn't run ads, it doesn't get lobbied for by salesmen, OEMs can't get deals for it. In fact, the fact it's got as far as 6% of the overall market share can be considered remarkable.

Also, there's another thing that Linux lovers will claim is a nice feature, that is the command line. I absolutely hate dealing with the command line. It's great if you want to write scripts, it sucks when you just want to do an obscure task on occasion and you have to look up all the commands. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent of the device manager in Linux, for instance, or per-app permissions management (at least, that's the impression I've gotten from the forums). Windows is all GUI, and it has the advantage of showing you what options are there in first place, rather than having to coax it out of the system. Even if the existence of Regedit or GPO editor isn't obvious, once you're there, they show you all the options. Windows sucks in many ways, but there are some things that Windows users take for granted which Linux simply doesn't have. 

As long as the answer to the question of "can you use Linux without command line" remains "no, not really", which always seems to be the conclusion after some prodding (and initial assurances that boil down to "yes, but only if you're interested in trivial use cases"), I suspect it'll have trouble shaking off its user-unfriendly reputation. At best, you can get a patchwork of GUI apps that give you the ability to execute some of the command line commands. If Linux is to win over people who grew up with Windows, this has to change.

[LucShep]

On 10/28/2025 at 3:46 PM, LucShep said:

I think that there's a misunderstanding regarding Linux. It's not trying to take on the world and become a monopoly. That won't happen, not anytime soon if ever. It's about having a great alternative, for anyone who has all the valid reasons to be discontent with MS Windows and wants a way out of it.

The simple fact that Bazzite alone (just one among many of the Linux versions/distros) gained over 10.000 users (ten thousand) between May and August this year is telling. That was two months ago... you can count on many more giving a chance to whatever Linux distro since then (disgruntled users with Win10 EOL) and even more in the future.
 

Meanwhile....

....and it's just one among so many other Linux distros, for which similar stories will be happening. 

It'll be cool to see the numbers in a few months from now.  
 

Edited Saturday at 05:19 AM by LucShep

[Hiob]

On 10/31/2025 at 12:13 AM, Envee said:

Try some. Try a few. Try them all. Dont even need to install to have a look. They can run inside a USB stick. If you do want to install....take windows drive physically out of computer. Leave in the drive you want to have linux on. Install linux and update then shut down. Physically install the windows drive again.

Keep the linux boot loader off of partition 1 on drive 1 and let it get installed on its own drive - you do this by having one single drive in the system to install on so it cant install the boot loader on the windows drive...which it does by default. If you dont then it gets installed on the windows drive and then troubles begin when M$ messes that partition up and then you cant boot at all. Neither OS will function when M$ chucks it up. And they will.

Most middle ranged MOBO's now have 2 M2 slots, so perfect for dual booters. Windows on one. Linux on the other.

Mint was fairly easy for me to get my head around. The look and feel is similar to windows, as is the UI. Most linux users would say to use Mint first. I use Nobara.

If you are a gamer though with modern hardware, even if you use nvidia, i would suggest Nobara. Apps necessary for linux gaming are installed and configured already. Just install steam, download your games or use a backup, then play. Just using steam and proton. No messing about with settings. Noob friendly. It shares many short cuts with windows. Look and feel is also similar. If you have all AMD hardware then your linux experience will be even easier. AMD drivers are already built into the kernel unlike the hack job that nvidia uses to get their drivers to work in linux. Both AMD and Nvidia are fine to use in linux and i have used both with no issues. Nvida has closed drivers so they need to do their things differently. I used my 3060 12 GB to game on linux. To use nvidia with nobara you just choose a different ISO where it all set up already. 

Nobara offers pre-configured and apps necessary for gaming are all loaded into the different ISO they offer. 

E.g. Nvidia with gnome desktop. Nvidia with cinnamon desktop. Nvidia with KDE desktop. They offer 9 different ISO's to suit your hardware and likes.

People here do not even have the up to date stats for linux users. We are now at %6, not the claimed %2.5 or whatever i read above. That figure is most likely low balling it. That %6 number comes from the US government itself, when they count people using google analytics on official US government sites.

Linux is used in greater numbers in poorer nations since they do not have to play for the OS but can still game on steam. They dont use US government sites.

Privacy aware people also hide their browser identifiers as these can be used to track you. This makes linux users not appear as linux users on government sites, so they do not get counted even though they are using linux.

All i am saying is that the number of users, i think, is more than the %6.

Windows 10 is dead. That number will rise now. In a years time it will rise again when 10 truly reaches end of life. Its on life support at the moment. For a year. Then its dead.

All right and correct.

I just want to add there is a way easier way to try out linux Distros. Virtual machines. Of course, when you eventually want to play games and need as much hardware performance as possible you should install native. But to try the look and feel of different distributions and find your way around linux for the first time, I‘d simply put them in a VM.

[Dragon1-1]

18 hours ago, LucShep said:

....and it's just one among so many other Linux distros, for which similar stories will be happening. 

It'll be cool to see the numbers in a few months from now.  

Impressive, but the question is whether they can sustain momentum past the first week. Apparently, the recent release made a splash. Also, FYI, it's a commercial (albeit cheap) Linux with paid features that's specifically designed to imitate Windows and in general be easy to use. Similar stories won't be happening with other distros simply because they, for most part, aren't specifically designed with that in mind.

[LucShep]

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Impressive, but the question is whether they can sustain momentum past the first week. Apparently, the recent release made a splash. Also, FYI, it's a commercial (albeit cheap) Linux with paid features that's specifically designed to imitate Windows and in general be easy to use. Similar stories won't be happening with other distros simply because they, for most part, aren't specifically designed with that in mind.

Be it as it may, things are only getting better for Linux and its varios distros. Numbers are already very significant and will only increase.

FWIW, enquiring ChatGPT about ballpark figures of Linux users:



I think it's a reality that some kind of exodus of Windows has already started.
Which also means more people involved and more men at work, directly or indirectly, to make things better.

With the upcoming Nvidia improvements for it (see video on first post of this thread) more users will get to Linux gaming.

Even Pimax (VR) now mentions Linux support in their roadmap.
As for other HMD brands, it seems VR in Linux is more complicated but no longer impossible (check).
Although it'd be fantastic, I'm not counting on @mbucchia to make VR software for Linux. Others will find a way for most popular headsets.

I see simracing FFB peripherals starting to get support (for example), one would presume same will eventually happen with flightsim equivalents.

Headtracking already works, with Opentrack (with Lutris inside DCS wineprefix, I read somewhere), even some compatibility for TrackIR seems to be developed (linuxtrack). 

Matter of time until things get better organized and standardized, and for other interested users here to atempt the transition in much easier ways.  
 

Edited yesterday at 12:49 AM by LucShep

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, LucShep said:

FWIW, enquiring ChatGPT about ballpark figures of Linux users:

Real data only, please. I don't know where the AI pulled those numbers from, but I treat anything it concocts as suspect. Just an example, Deepin's own data estimates its userbase as 3 million, well in excess of what the AI claims. Asking AI is usually a waste of time. 

That said, your post led me to an interesting tidbit, that is Deepin/UOS. Turns out, there already are OEM Linux machines... in China. They apparently have been trying to move away from Windows and Western-developed software to their own bespoke (and government-approved!) Linux distro. It's quite possible that China will end up taking a very different trajectory from the West on this. What it means for us, I don't know, but I do know it will complicate comparisons, since a big Linux surge driven by government-mandated Chinese installs won't necessarily translate into Western markets. OTOH, it might lead software companies to support Linux better, at least the ones allowed to do business with China.

Interestingly, it turns out a lot of US-hostile states, including North Korea, have their own bespoke Linux distros for government use. 

Edited yesterday at 03:04 AM by Dragon1-1

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Real data only, please. I don't know where the AI pulled those numbers from, but I treat anything it concocts as suspect. Just an example, Deepin's own data estimates its userbase as 3 million, well in excess of what the AI claims. Asking AI is usually a waste of time. 

 

Sorry pal, got more things to do than waste time searching all over the interweb for what the AI will pull up in mere seconds, from the same inumerous internet sources...
(canonical blogs, mirrors and forums data, ISO downloads estimates, Github stats, distrowatch rankings, Steam charts, etc)
.....which you'd probably contest anyway and label as "just random untrusty data from the internet"  riiiiiight?

Notice the "FWIW" (For What Is Worth) that I used there.
That's what AI has been well used for - pretty good for quick ballpark figures (i.e, rough estimate numbers for a general idea) and valid enough for matters like this one.
 

Edited yesterday at 04:56 AM by LucShep

[Dragon1-1]

6 hours ago, LucShep said:

.....which you'd probably contest anyway and label as "just random untrusty data from the internet"  riiiiiight?

If you got it from reliable websites, I'd have no reason to contest it. AI doesn't "pull up" data, it makes it up. In fact, if you compare the two columns, you'll plainly see a lot of BS. This is not proper use of AI, by doing this you're generating trash and normalizing something that is known to cause real harm.

[LucShep]

8 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

If you got it from reliable websites, I'd have no reason to contest it. AI doesn't "pull up" data, it makes it up. In fact, if you compare the two columns, you'll plainly see a lot of BS. This is not proper use of AI, by doing this you're generating trash and normalizing something that is known to cause real harm.

Sure thing bro, go ahead and do your own research to contradict the ballpark figures shown there (which is all they are). Have fun in the process.

[SharpeXB]

42 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Sure thing bro, go ahead and do your own research to contradict the ballpark figures shown there (which is all they are). Have fun in the process.

That research is easy. The most relevant survey for PC gaming is right here:
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Sure thing bro, go ahead and do your own research to contradict the ballpark figures shown there (which is all they are). Have fun in the process.

I already did. Your list is off about Deepin/UOS by something like two million users. That's reason enough to believe all the other figures can be thrown in the thrash. This isn't a ballpark estimate, it's a bald-faced lie. You post autogenerated misinformation and expect others to spend time doing research to prove you wrong? Sorry, that's not how it works. Using AI to lie doesn't change the fact that you're lying. You knowingly posted something as a factual estimate, despite being fully aware it's pulled out of the bot's backside. 

Just FYI, I'm pushing back on this not because of whether this made-up "data" proves my point or not. I'm pushing back because you're peddling made up crap and expecting people to believe because it's AI. Anyone could type in some random numbers and present them as evidence, but for some reason, most people wouldn't do that. What makes you believe it's OK just because you enlisted AI to type them in for you? Well, it's not OK and you should be ashamed of yourself. It will never, ever be OK, so do everyone a favor and don't do it again.

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

That research is easy. The most relevant survey for PC gaming is right here:
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

What, you again?  Still grasping at straws on repeat with Steam charts which, alone, don't matter to the current discussion?  Go away troll. 
 

50 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I already did. Your list is off about Deepin/UOS by something like two million users. That's reason enough to believe all the other figures can be thrown in the thrash. This isn't a ballpark estimate, it's a bald-faced lie. You post autogenerated misinformation and expect others to spend time doing research to prove you wrong? Sorry, that's not how it works. Using AI to lie doesn't change the fact that you're lying. You knowingly posted something as a factual estimate, despite being fully aware it's pulled out of the bot's backside. 

Just FYI, I'm pushing back on this not because of whether this made-up "data" proves my point or not. I'm pushing back because you're peddling made up crap and expecting people to believe because it's AI. Anyone could type in some random numbers and present them as evidence, but for some reason, most people wouldn't do that. What makes you believe it's OK just because you enlisted AI to type them in for you? Well, it's not OK and you should be ashamed of yourself. It will never, ever be OK, so do everyone a favor and don't do it again.

What?   ....ashamed??  LMFAO  ooh boy, the drama!

Look, nobody said the numbers were gospel. They’re clearly labeled as estimates - as I mentioned, and again, just rough ballpark figures based on public data like repo stats, project reports, canonical blogs, mirrors and forums data, ISO downloads estimates, Github stats, distrowatch rankings, Steam surveys, etc.
That’s how almost every Linux userbase estimate works, since hardly any distro publishes exact telemetry.

The point wasn’t to “fake data”, it was to show Linux’s scale has grown - especially with Windows 10 going EOL.
If you think the numbers are off, cool - bring your own sources!
But yelling “lies” and telling me "I should be ashamed" (ROFL!) over something that’s obviously presented as an approximation just misses the point, is downright comical, and does not invalidate the argument and the context, at all.
This isn’t about being “AI-generated” or “made up” - it’s about putting rough context behind a trend that most people already see happening. And that’s not something you can “push back” against - it’s simply the reality.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

8 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Still grasping at straws on repeat with Steam charts which, alone, don't matter to the current discussion?

How does an actual survey of tens of millions of PC gamers not matter? That’s literally what anyone should be looking at here. It’s much more valid than asking ChatGPT 

[Dragon1-1]

22 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Look, nobody said the numbers were gospel. They’re clearly labeled as estimates - as I mentioned, and again, just rough ballpark figures based on public data like repo stats, project reports, canonical blogs, mirrors and forums data, ISO downloads estimates, Github stats, distrowatch rankings, Steam surveys, etc.

False. You don't know what they're based on, just what the AI tells you. It might be using old data. It might be using wrong data. It might be using a random number that just happens to look like it belongs there. And the worst part is, you don't know, and you can't know. Not even its creators know, because AI is a black box. By pretending it's a search engine or an information source, you're saying something that's untrue.

There are humans who compile those statistics, or you could have used something like Distrowatch. Does it give a complete picture? No. Is it more reliable than a random bundle of numbers made up by a bot? Hell yes.

17 minutes ago, LucShep said:

This isn’t about being “AI-generated” or “made up” - it’s about putting rough context behind a trend that most people already see happening. And that’s not something you can “push back” against - it’s simply the reality.

Whatever the reality is, what you posted has been dreamt up by AI, and is demonstrably false. You missed my point. I'm giving you flak because you used AI, not because I disagree with your conclusion. There's a difference between "lies" and "estimates". Anything produced by AI is firmly on the former side.

The real data might well show the same trend, and had you posted a genuine estimate fact-checked by humans, there'd be no problem. But you didn't. You posted a machine-assisted lie. If it's accurate, it's by accident, and you don't even know if it is. Because you did nothing to check. It fits your preconception, but that doesn't make it evidence. My point right now is, don't us AI in a discussion with humans. Stop posting slop. Then we can get back on topic.

28 minutes ago, LucShep said:

What, you again?  Still grasping at straws on repeat with Steam charts which, alone, don't matter to the current discussion?  Go away troll. 

He's posting results from a survey you yourself mentioned to be a valid source. Those results might not give the full picture, but it's well known where they come from, what are their limitations, and so on. You, OTOH, posted AI slop, which is literally worse than nothing.

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

False. You don't know what they're based on, just what the AI tells you. It might be using old data. It might be using wrong data. It might be using a random number that just happens to look like it belongs there. And the worst part is, you don't know, and you can't know. Not even its creators know, because AI is a black box. By pretending it's a search engine or an information source, you're saying something that's untrue.

There are humans who compile those statistics, or you could have used something like Distrowatch. Does it give a complete picture? No. Is it more reliable than a random bundle of numbers made up by a bot? Hell yes.

Whatever the reality is, what you posted has been dreamt up by AI, and is demonstrably false. You missed my point. I'm giving you flak because you used AI, not because I disagree with your conclusion. There's a difference between "lies" and "estimates". Anything produced by AI is firmly on the former side.

The real data might well show the same trend, and had you posted a genuine estimate fact-checked by humans, there'd be no problem. But you didn't. You posted a machine-assisted lie. If it's accurate, it's by accident, and you don't even know if it is. Because you did nothing to check. It fits your preconception, but that doesn't make it evidence. My point right now is, don't us AI in a discussion with humans. Stop posting slop. Then we can get back on topic.

 

Just to clarify where those "ballpark figures" came from - they're all pulled from public, human-compiled datasets rather than anything hidden or speculative.

Steam Hardware & Software Survey: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
Linux share sits around 2-3 percent of monthly active users, roughly equal to about 3 million PCs.

StatCounter Global Stats: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
Reports Linux desktop share between 2 and 3 percent worldwide through 2025.

Flathub Stats Dashboard: Flatpak downloads have roughly doubled since 2022, showing higher desktop activity.

• The official Flathub statistics page: “Statistics | Flathub” shows total downloads and apps. Flathub - Apps for Linux
• A news article reporting that Flathub has passed 2+ billion downloads. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Flathub-Two-Billion-Downloads
• The stats directory showing year-folders for Flathub downloads (indicating long term data collection). Flathub - Apps for Linux

Canonical / Ubuntu blogs and Launchpad metrics: Canonical has published multiple posts and pages showing user metrics, repository activity, and desktop adoption trends confirming Ubuntu and its derivatives remain the most widely used Linux desktop base.

• “A first look at desktop metrics” (June 2018) — Canonical’s initial data about Ubuntu Desktop installs, upgrades, and geographic distribution.
  https://ubuntu.com/blog/a-first-look-at-desktop-metrics
• “Canonical and Ubuntu – user statistics” (October 2018) — Explains Canonical’s approach to telemetry, user-count transparency, and privacy.
  https://ubuntu.com/blog/canonical-and-ubuntu-user-statistics
• “Ubuntu Live Stats” (Launchpad.net) — Publicly visible Ubuntu ecosystem metrics (bugs, translations, code, and repo activity).
  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-stats
• “Ubuntu Desktop 24.04 LTS: Noble Numbat deep dive” (April 2024) — Mentions that “Ubuntu powers millions of PCs and laptops around the world.”
  https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-desktop-24-04-noble-numbat-deep-dive

Arch and Manjaro mirror telemetry: Arch and Manjaro maintain public mirror directories showing ISO and package activity; timestamps and file volumes indicate consistent year-over-year growth since 2022.

• Arch Linux Downloads page: https://archlinux.org/download/
• Example Arch ISO mirror (dotsrc.org): https://mirrors.dotsrc.org/archlinux/iso/latest/
• Example Manjaro mirror listing: https://mirror.archlinux.tw/Manjaro/pool/overlay/
  
  (NOTE: the caveat here is these sources demonstrate that mirror/ISO/package telemetry exists and is visible (downloads, timestamps etc). However, one can not locate a source that publishes “steady rise” as a quoted official growth figure for arch/manjaro ISO downloads publicly in a simple graph or table with date-based trend (at least not in the sources I found). So the statement “show a steady rise … since 2022” is still reasonable deduction (based on visible increasing timestamps, releases, mirror traffic) rather than a clean “here’s the table” citation)

UnionTech / Deepin (UOS) press releases and IDC analyst reports (2023-2024): mention "millions of users" for Deepin / UOS deployments across Chinese government and SOEs - exact figures vary.

• “Linux Deepin’s big brother claims it’s hit three million installs” (by The Register) — reports UOS has “over three million installs” in China. theregister.com
• “Recently … UOS has shipped over 6 million units in the desktop market” (on a Chinese-site article) beijingetown.com.cn
• “Deepin community … global users over 5.4 million … its downstream commercial distribution UnionTech UOS has been installed on over 6 million devices in China.” linuxjournal.com
• “China-made OS aims … with potential mass market of 300 million individual users” (in a 2020 article) globaltimes.cn

  (NOTE: These sources support the idea of “millions of users/devices/customers,” but they do not always offer a fully transparent breakdown (free vs. paid, region, exact dates)). 

In the end, none of these sources agree perfectly - which is exactly why any figure has to be treated as an estimate, "ballpark figures".
Combining them gives a reasonable global Linux desktop range of roughly 40-60 million users (about 2-4 percent market share).

Whether one prefers StatCounter, Steam, or distro-mirror data, they all point to the same trend: Linux's share is small but steadily growing, helped by better drivers and more user-friendly distros.  And THAT trend was the only real point behind my post back there!

Anyway, the sources above speak for themselves - folks can check whichever they trust most.
 

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

He's posting results from a survey you yourself mentioned to be a valid source. Those results might not give the full picture, but it's well known where they come from, what are their limitations, and so on. You, OTOH, posted AI slop, which is literally worse than nothing.

Negative.
You're not paying attention to the sequence of posts and their context (which is EVERYTHING). 
He's posting the same chart that he has repeatedly posted for eons, without context to the post (mine) to which he directly replied to, with that.
He's trolling -again- and you're fueling him - YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!!!!111111oneoneoneone

So, this thread starts with news that there'll be changes on Linux, involving Vulkan, Nvidia and VK3D, which should boost Nvidia to work as good there as it does in Windows.
Which will soon benefit anyone - including people in here - who does not want to continue using Windows (for all the valid reasons!) and have been at the side fence looking at Linux (deterred by the lower gaming performance of Nvidia there).

Then it became a back and forth argument about the validity of Linux in the gaming scenario.....
Then its validity in the grand scheme of global usage.....
Then it spiraled into a “philosophical” fight about AI credibility rather than staying on-topic about Linux......

Seriously, WTF has gone wrong in these forums??
 

Edited 10 hours ago by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

49 minutes ago, LucShep said:

He's posting the same chart that he has repeatedly posted for eons

Because it’s the most relevant survey here. You just cited it yourself. Whether 2-3% of the market makes something feasible for Linux support is anyone’s guess. In all likelihood that’s not enough. You can see products like Microsoft Office, iTunes or Turbo Tax that sell huge numbers of copies and yet apparently aren’t profitable to make for Linux. 

Edited 10 hours ago by SharpeXB

[LucShep]

58 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Because it’s the most relevant survey here. You just cited it yourself. Whether 2-3% of the market makes something feasible for Linux support is anyone’s guess. In all likelihood that’s not enough. You can see products like Microsoft Office, iTunes or Turbo Tax that sell huge numbers of copies and yet apparently aren’t profitable to make for Linux. 

Dude, relevant for what? 
Steam stats are only a really tiny portion of the global user stats, which was what was being discussed when you replied with that (once again!).

People are getting tired of Windows shenanigans, and the closest working alternative is Linux, period.
If that's not your case, fine - use Win11 and the upcoming Win12. That's your choice.

If gamers (including DCS users) feel stuck with an OS that they despise, knowing that it's clearly going from bad to worse, then why would anyone oppose to the idea of exploring some other OS that may provide most (if not all) of the same functionality with none of such problems?
And where does that hurt you, really, for you to insist (on and on and on and on) with a point that doesn't relate? 

Don't like it, don't use it.
Interested? Then stay tuned, or maybe give it a go and pick a distro (my 2 cents).
That's it. Got nothing to do with stats.
 

Edited 10 hours ago by LucShep

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, LucShep said:

In the end, none of these sources agree perfectly - which is exactly why any figure has to be treated as an estimate, "ballpark figures".
Combining them gives a reasonable global Linux desktop range of roughly 40-60 million users (about 2-4 percent market share).

Now those are figures that are actual data that does support your point. You can now clearly see the slop was widely off base (and for some reason, it sold the Chinese variant quite short), even if the conclusion was the same. 

49 minutes ago, LucShep said:

If gamers (including DCS users) feel stuck with an OS that they despise, knowing that it's clearly going from bad to worse, then why would anyone oppose to the idea of exploring some other OS that may provide most (if not all) of the same functionality with none of such problems?

Well, dev time is in limited supply, for DCS it's in very limited supply. So the question becomes, when does making a Linux port starts being worth the trouble. For DCS, it probably won't happen anytime soon. While the idea of low overhead OS to squeeze more juice out of the hardware sounds appealing, the required software just isn't there. In particular, while Pimax announced VR support on Linux (I wonder if Chinese government's push for UOS has anything to do with that), most joystick software only runs on Windows.