Ddg1500 Posted 17 hours ago Posted 17 hours ago Hello, today i'm going to give some helpful methods about how to "safely retrim, control wing sweep and prevent excessive ociliation" after finishing aerial refueling. You might encounter a issue that after you finished refueling while stay in formation, you sweep your "wings fully forward(from BOMB mode to AUTO)", and the F14 just "abruptly pitch its nose excessively up" and it takes a "great amount of effort to stabilize" due to increased lift, and it is dangerous and casuse you unable to fly in formation. This a problem only exists in f14, no other fighters in this game have such issue becasue they don't have variable sweep wing. To "alleivate or slove this problem", here is serval method. 1 The BEST&SAFE solution is slowly move the wings to forward position by "manual control", not through the AUTO button, but through the wing swep forward & after two way hat on the throttle, "move it forward slowly BIT BY BIT and TRIM out the undesired pitch during sweeping ",adjust the wing to fully sweep in 2-4mins is safe and effective enough to reduce or remove ALL the undesired pitch movement. Futhermore, when you move the wings forward a little bit,TRIM and WAIT for a little while to fully stabilize it, and then move sweep angle further. Be careful on the throttle and vertcial veclocity indicator, You would need a lot of experience to do it safely 2 Just switch to AUTO after tanking NOT greatly recommended, becasue it requries a lot of stick and trim effort to stabilize and may even worsen the ociliation, although could be done, it is not safe. 3 Don't sweep to the wings to bomb mode at the first place. just keep it at AUTO Is also NOT recommended, because although it fundmentally slove the pitch problem as you don't move the wings, it makes tanking much more unstable and harder(especially with S-3), the wings simply generate too much lift, which makes contact too diffcult, wing sweep to bomb is a VERY GREAT help to do a stable and easy tanking. I used to do tanking without BOMB mode, and it preplex me a lot. If you want to look at what it really should be done, look at the my track file f14 Post AAR retrimming & wing sweep.trk f14 Post AAR retrimming & wing sweep2.trk f14 Post AAR retrimming & wing sweep3.trk
MAXsenna Posted 16 hours ago Posted 16 hours ago Interesting. Disagree with 3. I've always refueled in auto, have never considered anything else. Piece of cake really as long as I trim for the speed. Gotta try the bomb mode now to see if there's any difference. I use FFB. Maybe that plays a role. Never tried AAR in the Turkey without FFB.Cheers! Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
Spartan111sqn Posted 16 hours ago Posted 16 hours ago Good tips, but in RL the normally do in auto, I do it in auto always, i recognize that it is needed skills and also big sesitiveness and be very soft with throttle. I am not sure if it is a bit exaggerated how the tomcat reacts to every change in speed, maybe too much trim. Not sure if it is well modeled, coming from heatblur has all my confidence, but always need a big trim constantly and seems very unstable in pitch. 1
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted 16 hours ago Posted 16 hours ago (edited) I’ve always used Auto too, both with regular spring loaded base and with FFB. Refuelling the F-14 already is far easier than say the F-18 with a regular stick, and FFB makes it child’s play. Really, it’s hilariously easy, so there’s absolutely no need to faff about with Bomb mode etc: that’s just overcomplicating matters. Edited 16 hours ago by Raven (Elysian Angel) Auto correct 🤮 2 Spoiler Ryzen 7 9800X3D | 96GB G.Skill Ripjaws M5 Neo DDR5-6000 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 990Pro 4TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero VPC MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-extension | VPC CM3 throttle | VPC CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | VPC R1-Falcon pedals with damper | Pro Flight Trainer Puma OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings Win11 Pro 24H2 - VBS/HAGS/Game Mode ON
razo+r Posted 16 hours ago Posted 16 hours ago While I think it's a good post to prepare newcomers about what to expect, I tend to disagree with you in some points besides what I think are some exaggerations from you. And just as a tip in advance, try to fly faster. Yes, the F-14 will not fall out of the sky at 225 KIAS, but it will be much more controllable and less sluggish if you fly faster and use a faster tanker. This in turn also decreases your problem of the nose drop/raise, since the wings will already be closer to the BOMB position than when you are slow. 1 hour ago, Ddg1500 said: You might encounter a issue that after you finished refueling while stay in formation, you sweep your "wings fully forward(from BOMB mode to AUTO)", and the F14 just "abruptly pitch its nose excessively up" and it takes a "great amount of effort to stabilize" due to increased lift, and it is dangerous and casuse you unable to fly in formation. It's not abrupt. It's pretty much proportional to the wing movement. Since you have an indication as to how far the wings will move, you already know how much the nose will raise or drop. You know that beforehand, so you can already anticipate for it. And the rate in drop/raise is almost identical to the trim speed (on purpose or not, I don't know), so as long as you see the wings move, hit the trim and you will almost perfectly stay in place. No great amount of effort required to stay stable. Nothing dangerous and you can still maintain formation with a bit of practise. 1 hour ago, Ddg1500 said: Be careful on the throttle and vertcial veclocity indicator, You would need a lot of experience to do it safely That's basic airmanship. Maintaining altitude/attitude and using the trim is the first thing a student pilot learns and a virtual pilot should learn. It's a basic thing that gets natural once you are used to it. And like I already mentioned, you know the rate at which the wings will move and you know how far they will move, so you can already anticipate what will happen and correct it before it becomes a problem. 1 hour ago, Ddg1500 said: 2 Just switch to AUTO after tanking NOT greatly recommended, becasue it requries a lot of stick and trim effort to stabilize and may even worsen the ociliation, although could be done, it is not safe. It's not "not safe". I think you are a bit on the wrong track with the whole "it's dangerous" and "it's unsafe". Here's a different example with almost the same behaviour. Deploying flaps creates ballooning (increase in lift and dropping of the nose), requiring you to counteract it with trim and stick input. So is deploying flaps inherently unsafe? Hell no. You (hopefully) know how the aircraft will react, so you can already counteract it. If it truly had been not safe, surely it wouldn't have been a feature in the aircraft, right? 1 hour ago, Ddg1500 said: 3 Don't sweep to the wings to bomb mode at the first place. just keep it at AUTO Is also NOT recommended, because although it fundmentally slove the pitch problem as you don't move the wings, it makes tanking much more unstable and harder(especially with S-3), the wings simply generate too much lift, which makes contact too diffcult, wing sweep to bomb is a VERY GREAT help to do a stable and easy tanking. I used to do tanking without BOMB mode, and it preplex me a lot. I think this is more an issue of how fine your control inputs are paired together with, in your example, relativly slow speed of the aircraft. If you can modulate your input well, there is no issue with tanking in AUTO mode. 1 hour ago, Ddg1500 said: If you want to look at what it really should be done, look at the my track file But it's a good thing you provided tracks, that way people can see what you mean instead of a dry wall of text. Also, the point of using bold text is to highlight important bits and pieces. If you use it on half of your text, it kind of defeats the purpose on that... 2 2
Spartan111sqn Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 5 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said: I’ve always used Auto too, both with regular spring loaded base and with FFB. Refuelling the F-14 already is far easier than say the F-18 with a regular stick, and FFB makes it child’s play. Really, it’s hilariously easy, so there’s absolutely no need to faff about with Bomb mode etc: that’s just overcomplicating matters. So you recommend FFB?, any advice where to get it?, difficult to install and setup?
MAXsenna Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 13 minutes ago, Spartan111sqn said: So you recommend FFB?, any advice where to get it?, difficult to install and setup? Oh, yeah baby! Moza has a commercial one. For better ones, go for the VPForce Rhino like @Raven (Elysian Angel) has, or the FFBeast. Have a look in the For Sale forum. Winwing and Virpil are going to release their own commercial ones later. It's not hard to setup at all. I fly with an old MS FFB2 Sidewinder pro, that's like 20+ years old, with its oddeties and querks. Still super easy to rank the Tomcat. Honestly, I wish this so much for you. It's a complete game changer, and you will never want anything else. It will be that last base you'll ever get, (if you go for the good ones), probably! Cheers! 1
Raven (Elysian Angel) Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 3 minutes ago, MAXsenna said: Honestly, I wish this so much for you. It's a complete game changer, and you will never want anything else. I can only second that I personally recommend VPforce not just because of the level of quality of hardware, but also because the software has had a few years now to mature. The VPforce software is rather complex but there is a good manual, and when you take things slow and take your time to learn what the various options do, and how to create your own profiles for each module (or type of module), you'll wonder why you didn't buy it sooner! 1 1 Spoiler Ryzen 7 9800X3D | 96GB G.Skill Ripjaws M5 Neo DDR5-6000 | Asus ProArt RTX 4080 Super | ASUS ROG Strix X870E-E GAMING | Samsung 990Pro 2TB + 990Pro 4TB NMVe | VR: Varjo Aero VPC MT-50CM2 grip on VPForce Rhino with Z-extension | VPC CM3 throttle | VPC CP2 + 3 | FSSB R3L | VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip | Everything mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | VPC R1-Falcon pedals with damper | Pro Flight Trainer Puma OpenXR | PD 1.0 | 100% render resolution | DCS graphics settings Win11 Pro 24H2 - VBS/HAGS/Game Mode ON
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