Chonker Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm getting quite into blackshark but my old joystick's causing me problems so I've just ordered a cougar HOTAS to replace it. My old stick had a twist rudder but I understand the cougar does not so I need so sort out some pedals, I've a few questions about them though having never flown a real aircraft or used sim rudder pedals before. Are the two sides linked (push one and it pulls the other)? Are they sprung to return to centre? If they return to centre, how does this work with the trim, is it like the stick axis' where you must return to the centrepoint in .5s? Are the rudder pedals is a real helicopter any different from those in a plane? (I'm thinking I might make my own to keep costs down so I could incorporate any difference in my design). What are the cheapest pedals I can buy that arn't total crap, which work with a gameport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate--IRL-- Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm getting quite into blackshark but my old joystick's causing me problems so I've just ordered a cougar HOTAS to replace it. My old stick had a twist rudder but I understand the cougar does not so I need so sort out some pedals, I've a few questions about them though having never flown a real aircraft or used sim rudder pedals before. Are the two sides linked (push one and it pulls the other)? Yes Are they sprung to return to centre? Yes If they return to centre, how does this work with the trim, is it like the stick axis' where you must return to the centrepoint in .5s? Yes Are the rudder pedals is a real helicopter any different from those in a plane? (I'm thinking I might make my own to keep costs down so I could incorporate any difference in my design). No Edit:- Toe Brake arrangement may differ, I'm not sure What are the cheapest pedals I can buy that arn't total crap, which work with a gameport? No Idea try CH products Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaltysZ Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Are the two sides linked (push one and it pulls the other)? Yes, if they are aviation pedals (not pedals for car). Are they sprung to return to centre? Yes, but feet are heavy and not as sensitive as hands, so you need to practice if you want to feel the center. If they return to centre, how does this work with the trim, is it like the stick axis' where you must return to the centrepoint in .5s? Exactly the same like with stick. Sadly, there are still no FFB pedals to buy. Are the rudder pedals is a real helicopter any different from those in a plane? (I'm thinking I might make my own to keep costs down so I could incorporate any difference in my design). Generally they are the same. There can be difference in trimming system, presence of force sensors and etc., but you should not care about this, unless you are building dedicated super realistic cockpit. What are the cheapest pedals I can buy that arn't total crap, which work with a gameport? Look for Saitek or CH. They cost about $100. There are more expensive alternatives too. Gameport is phased out now. Vista does not have gameport support at all and future Windows versions won't have it either. All new modern controllers are USB now. Wir sehen uns in Walhalla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyBerkut Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 No toe brakes on the Black Shark, but having them on there won't hurt anything if you just leave those inputs disabled in the axis settings. You'll be glad to have them later on for A-10, and/or other fixed wing aircraft. If your main purpose (if you buy pedals) is for DCS:BS, then you could always just use a set of USB pedals. The analog game port input for pedals on the Cougar is nice if you are playing a game/sim that only recognizes a single game controller... but that is pretty much older games. DCS:BS, like most newer sims/games will recognize multiple USB controllers. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There's no place like 127.0.0.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG14_Smil Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The centering detent on CH pedals is very easy to feel, even with hard shoes on. Gameport model is fine with the Cougar you have ordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Pete Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I actually just received a new pair of Saitek rudder pedals in the mail a few days ago. I cant begin to describe how fantastic they are. Flying the shark is so much easier now. I used a twist stick before and while it worked I knew the shark wasn't flying right. When I twisted the stick I would inadvertently pull it to one side, messing up my flight path. Plus since I couldn't hold the stick in place for the rudder for any amount of time I was constantly having to trim, and re-trim every few seconds. This caused all sorts of problems and performing any kind of hard maneuvers were a chore. But now all those little conflicts of having all 3 controls on one stick are gone, and the amount of trimming I have to do has been cut in half. It now flies like it's supposed to, very easy to control and maneuvers like a hammerhead are very fluid now and there's no "back talking" from the aircraft anymore. The Saitek pedals do have a spring that returns them to the center, and you do have to do this every time you trim, but since you'll be trimming a whole lot less it isnt a big deal. I bought mine from Gogamer.com for $95 but now they're out of stock, it seems like everything there is out of stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chonker Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 When I twisted the stick I would inadvertently pull it to one side, messing up my flight path. Plus since I couldn't hold the stick in place for the rudder for any amount of time I was constantly having to trim, and re-trim every few seconds. This caused all sorts of problems and performing any kind of hard maneuvers were a chore. That's it exactly! Thanks all, definately food for thought. Going to have to let my wallet recover a bit before making a decision (or keep my eyes peeled on fleabay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Bazong- Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I'm currently using the pedals for an MS racing wheel.. Eventhough they can both be pressed simultaniously it's alot better than twistgrip. (Now I'm contemplating turning the wheel into force feedback pedals :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triggerhappy69 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Are the two sides linked (push one and it pulls the other)? Indeed they are.. You can see from the pictures below that they work as a paralellogram to keep the pedal faces paralell to your feet. Are they sprung to return to centre? That all depends.. Normal airplane pedals will have a centering force because of the preasure of the air flowing over the rudder wil try to push it back to a "neutral" position. Helicopters on the other hand does not have a centering force from the aerodynamics. Most choppers does not have a centering force on the controls at all. But the Blackshark does.. Allthough this is acheaved by linking the mechanics of the HOCAS and pedals to a system of springs and clutches. But it's important to see the main difference in the use of pedals in helicopters opposed to in airplanes. In a helicopter you almost never fly with the pedals nice and centered. because they are not only used to control your direction, but also to balance out the forces working in the horizontal plane. This is why most choppers have pedals that allow the pilot to have the heels in one place, making the chance of leg cramps after hours of flying smaller: Like these from a BELL Helicopter.. The Blackshark uses the standard pedals also found in other Russian planes and helicopters (allthough slightly modified in the hub mechanics from what I could see in the pictures). But I am guessing that they don't have a full 8-10 inch deflection like most airplanes do... Again the whole "cramp issue" from hours with your feet in an aquard position..? But I'm not sure about this.. It just makes more sence.. Standard Russian Pedals used in (amongst others) the Su-25/Su-25T: Slighly older version, but you see the likeness?: Same pedals in a MI-2 Helicopter: On the other hand the Blackshark should get some centering force from it's Fin&Rudder tail when flying at some speed. Weather this force is adequate to neutralize the torque force from moving your cyclic stick I do not know.. Probably not..! But I digress.. back to your question.. So If I used "normal" pedals I would either remove the centering force all together, or at least make it as small as possible. If they return to centre, how does this work with the trim, is it like the stick axis' where you must return to the centrepoint in .5s? You obviously haven't had the joy of flying DSC/BS with a Force Feedback setup, am I right? With FFB you don't have to return the stick to center at all. The center moves to the position your control is when you release the trim button. The pedals work in the same way. I press trim, move stick and pedals so the chopper is stable like I want it, and when I release Trim again the stick and pedals just stay there.. It's BRILLIANT..!:thumbup: Are the rudder pedals is a real helicopter any different from those in a plane? (I'm thinking I might make my own to keep costs down so I could incorporate any difference in my design). Now we're talking..! If you want to make FFB pedals I have done two of them now, and I'll be delighted to give you any info you want. The main difference is the "move your feet with heel stationary" or "move your legs" setup. But this can be achieved by using hall effect sencors instead of potmeters, as they are more exact you can physicly "block" the pedals movement when flying a chopper simulator. I have done so on my pedals if you see the two 6mm bolts preventing the main axle from moving to much. My FFB with stuff from an old FFB Racing Wheel: Hall Effect sensor: What are the cheapest pedals I can buy that arn't total crap, which work with a gameport? :helpsmilie:... I should'nt say this, but I think they are ALL C*** ...:cry: that's why I have always made my own pedals.. And it's sooo simple to.! Thay don't even have to look good since thay are always stuck under your desk? But my main reason for building them was that the spacing between the pedals were always to thight.. My first DIY pedals (they still work like a charm, AND feels really smooth and presice to!): My DIY Pedals: 1 "But (504)Brewber said they were'nt friendly.. So I took'em out.!" [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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