Autopilot Mystery (At least to me)

[Conuk]

i just mapped a button on the cougar.... i level up or point where i want to be --- hit the (cougar) x button - it centres my rudeer then I trim..... seems to work a treat so far......

[dburne]

Nice tip, I will have to give that a try myself - a couple of times while hovering low I have gotten out of shape only to find my rudder was out of whack when trying to re-trim.

[Pogo]

I can't say that rudder centering was ever a problem for me.

 

My issue is more around things like flying a landing pattern or doing an approach into a target area. I'd have the helicopter nicely trimmed at the proper attitude and speed and then I'd have to risk re-trimming (and screwing up my current attitude and speed) just to get on the heading I wanted.

 

I still need to test this properly, but now I think that I can maintain my current trim and just tap X or Z as I come out of a turn and the helicopter will maintain the new heading without trying to return to the previously trimmed heading.

 

I agree that it might be considered a bit of a cheat, but the way I look at it is that it just reduces the penalty that the game imposes on those not flying with a FF stick.

 

Cheers,

Pogo

[deltatango]

Ok after reading Pogo's first post in this thread and all the FAQ posts, etc elswhere in the forum and the flight manuals and readme files and the rest of this thread:

 

I still don't understand the logic of the trimmer in the helicopter!

 

This is why:

1. An aircraft (especially a helicopter) with simple hydraulic/mechanical flight controls can be unstable and require many inputs to the flight controls to get it to fly in the desired flightpath (or change flightpath) that the pilot wants. This can only be relieved by

 

2. So, to relieve the pilot and make the aircraft easier to control and electronic flight control system (FCS) can be incorporated into the aircraft. This changes the way the controls are operated (subtly, but importantly), so that manipulation of the flight controls produces the desired changes in flightpath. So, for example, moving the anti-torque pedals to the right, makes the aircraft yaw to the right a corresponding amount (the amount is adjusted by the FCS, depending on the airspeed and a heap of other parameters) and leaving them centred keeps the yaw rate zero. In the background, the FCS computer is adding a HEAP of extra control inputs to the flight controls, that the pilot is blissfully unaware of. Without that, he would have to make those him/herself.

 

3. Ok we all understand that, *BUT*, the very bizarre (IMHO) FCS of the Blackshark omits the second part of the FCS regime. That is, it will keep the helicopter steady on the current flightpath (or rate of change of flightpath), but it will FIGHT any attempt by the pilot to change the flight path by introducing control inputs. Again - to me - this BIZARRE. Flying it is like flying something attached to a giant rubber band. You make a control input and when you release it, the aircraft goes back to what it was doing before you made the input. You have to actually press a button before it wil let you make an input.

 

So as a comparison. In a modern helicopter (EG an EH101 Merlin) if you are in a hover and you add some pedal for 2 sec, then centre the pedals, the helicopter will yaw left, then stop and hover in the new direction. In the Blackshark, if you are in a hover and add some pedal for 2 sec, the helicopter will begin to turn. When you release the pedal input, the helicopter will snap back to the heading it was holding before. Like it is attached to some big rubber band!

 

4. So to summarise. A "normal" FCS works like this:

New Flightpath = (current flightpath + pilot inputs) - inputs by torque, wind and other aerodynamic forces.

 

The bizzaro Blackshark flight control logic works like this:

New Flightpath = (current flightpath + pilot inputs - pilot inputs) - inputs by torque, wind and other aerodynamic forces.

 

Yes I understand how to fly it and yes I can fly it, by I will never understand why it is designed like this.

[dburne]

I have tried it a couple of times now when I thought the opportunity was good ( tapping the x or z key to center rudder ), and it seemed to work well. I have been practicing over and over flying the traffic pattern in the training mission for it, and this time I absolutely greased a beautiful landing for the very first time - I was pleased. It seemed to help me get lined up really well with the runway.

I will certainly be mapping one of those keys to a button on my Cougar's stick.

[Pogo]

Hi DT,

 

I can't explain it either. All I can say is that it doesn't really seem to be the issue with a force feedback stick that it is with a regular stick or HOTAS. Granted, I can't seem to get the Logitech Force 3d Pro stick to work right in the game short of reducing the saturation to a point where there isn't enough control movement left to fly properly, but that is my impression.

 

I've switched back to my X52 Pro and at least I am satisfied that I have enough tools ( Route AP, Trim, Turn to Target, tapping the keyboard rudder key) that allow me to fly the aircraft more painlessly than before.

 

There are still inconsistencies that I can't explain, such as how the helicopter behaves in the Landing Pattern training mission, but I have so many other things to learn that I am not going to dwell on them. I figure I'll sort it out eventually .

 

Cheers,

Pogo

[Pogo]

I have tried it a couple of times now when I thought the opportunity was good ( tapping the x or z key to center rudder ), and it seemed to work well. I have been practicing over and over flying the traffic pattern in the training mission for it, and this time I absolutely greased a beautiful landing for the very first time - I was pleased. It seemed to help me get lined up really well with the runway.

I will certainly be mapping one of those keys to a button on my Cougar's stick.

 

Cheers D. :thumbup:

[scatter]

What'd be great would be for the "rctl enter" overlay to show (perhaps in a different colour) what the autopilot inputs are as well as the controls and trim. It'd help to be able to see at a glance why the aircraft seems to not be flying the way that you'd expect.

 

I am also having issues with the autopilot/trim in 1.01 - During an online mission on ingress, I had it suddenly pitch me up into the air and then spiral me into the ground - not what I was expecting. Being able to see why from in the sim would help to avoid such situations (or might reveal any sim error if repeatable).

 

I've resorted to adding an extra cyclic trim method using a hat on my Fighterstick Pro - one tap engages "t", moves the stick slightly, disengages t, and returns the stick axis back to normal. Hitting the switch seems to move the cyclic trim about in a more predictable manner.

Edited September 13, 2009 by scatter