antagonist Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Study the tail and nose section on the screenshots that were released to SimHQ: http://www.simhq.com/_air13/air_425f.html The SimHQ article is from August 17, while the article about the A-10c's new warning system is from October 10. So that means I'll guess 'probably', especially considering GGTharos made mention of a 'surprise'.:music_whistling:
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 The SimHQ article is from August 17, while the article about the A-10c's new warning system is from October 10. So that means I'll guess 'probably', especially considering GGTharos made mention of a 'surprise'.:music_whistling: And considering that these upgrades took place after ED had finished the DTS (which, i guess, is what we will get avionic-wise), i'd say it's not gonna happen. They'd have to modify the 3D-model and most likely the pit, which seems unlikely at this point, at least to me. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
GGTharos Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Modern IRH platforms can and do use an LRF to range you before shooting to increase their Pk. A jet really doesn't need a laser warning receiver. It would be incredibly hard to hit a warthog with a Vikhr, and very few SAMs are laser guided- I only know of one, in fact. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 ... and considering that you don't really know how the DTS project is structured, you shouldn't be making such assumptions ;) And considering that these upgrades took place after ED had finished the DTS (which, i guess, is what we will get avionic-wise), i'd say it's not gonna happen. They'd have to modify the 3D-model and most likely the pit, which seems unlikely at this point, at least to me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 ... and considering that you don't really know how the DTS project is structured, you shouldn't be making such assumptions ;) Is the DTS still under further development? Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
GGTharos Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I don't really know how it's structured either. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 We'll have to wait and see then :) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Modern IRH platforms can and do use an LRF to range you before shooting to increase their Pk. Can MLWS also detect laser energy? Ranging lasers work in the IR band, right? Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
GGTharos Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 When it comes to sensors, the IR band is cut up into segments as well - there's no guarantee that the LRF will use energy that is visible by the MLWS, but it is possible. Note though that in this case they specifically mention a laser warning system. There is a difference, and the difference can be telling a laser apart from just an IR flash that's part of something else (a laser has an extremely narrow spectrum typically, and it is coherent, so it's different from 'just any IR light source out there' ... but the MWS might not be set up to be able to tell the difference). [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 There is a difference, and the difference can be telling a laser apart from just an IR flash that's part of something else (a laser has an extremely narrow spectrum typically, and it is coherent, so it's different from 'just any IR light source out there' ... but the MWS might not be set up to be able to tell the difference). Well, from a technical standpoint, i think it would be feasible, if the CCDs (or whatever is used as detector) operate in a broad band. A system that has the image processing power to detect a missile launch should be able to identify a monochromous light source (as something like that is only produced artificially). Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
GGTharos Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 The point being that your missile launch detector might not be able to tell the difference between monochromatic light and whatever else. ;) Detecting it along might not be enough - but I don't know. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
EtherealN Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) The SimHQ article is from August 17, while the article about the A-10c's new warning system is from October 10. So that means I'll guess 'probably', especially considering GGTharos made mention of a 'surprise'.:music_whistling: I don't really see the significance of the date of the two articles. Are you saying that ED would have been unable to learn of that system until the linked article was posted? It's not like they, say, developed the A10C DTS for the US ANG well before that. ;) And considering that these upgrades took place after ED had finished the DTS (which, i guess, is what we will get avionic-wise), i'd say it's not gonna happen. They'd have to modify the 3D-model and most likely the pit, which seems unlikely at this point, at least to me. I realise there might be several discussions ongoing at the same time here, but... Why would they have to modify the 3D model? If you look at the picture you will see the sensors linked in the article at the nose and tail. They are there! On the other hand, I think the ones on the wing weren't there, which is interesting - but maybe they were only half-way through the modification of the 3D-model when they released those pics to SimHQ? Also, on the time at which the upgrades were installed, it's not like the US Air Force and ANG just suddenly get an idea over their afternoon coffee and suddenly install a system. The system will have been planned for a while before being installed, and part of the planning is to ensure that pilots are trained to use the system that is being installed. Including a planned system in a DTS would be a good idea. (I don't know if it was actually included in the DTS though, so there is an element of speculation here, but what I do know is that I am seeing those detectors on the model posted on DCS:A10C screenshots.) Edited October 27, 2009 by EtherealN [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 I realise there might be several discussions ongoing at the same time here, but... Why would they have to modify the 3D model? If you look at the picture you will see the sensors linked in the article at the nose and tail. To say it with the words of GG: No, they are not there. ;) What you talk about are the exterior lights or some small struts. The MLWS looks different. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
AlphaOneSix Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 There are two sensors on the tail already besides the lights. They are the receiver antennas for the AN/APR-39 Radar Warning Receiver (black antennas on the left and right sides of the tailcone). The new sensors (facing directly aft and downward) are part of the AN/AAR-47 Missile Approach Warning System. The AN/AAR-47 can tie in to the AN/APR-39 system so that you have one system for detecting radar, IR, and laser threats.
EtherealN Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Oooh, that's some inattention that nailed me bad. Got the systems mized up. :D Thanks for the correction. :) Edited October 27, 2009 by EtherealN [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
sobek Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) The AN/AAR-47 can tie in to the AN/APR-39 system so that you have one system for detecting radar, IR, and laser threats. That is very interesting, i always wondered if MLWS could work as laser warning as well. *Fingerscrossed* we will get this. Edited October 27, 2009 by sobek Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
AlphaOneSix Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 That is very interesting, i always wondered if MLWS could work as laser warning as well (see above). Well it depends on the system. Newer systems (like the AN/AAR-47) can detect laser threats. The AN/AVR-2 system was designed specifcally as a laser detector, and has been used on many U.S. Army aircraft. The older AN/APR-39 system is a radar receiver only. There are several other laser detectors and missile warning systems, but I don't know a great deal about them since they were introduced after I left the military.
antagonist Posted October 27, 2009 Posted October 27, 2009 Wow, this thread is an epileptic tree :P Didn't realize the new warning system would cause such an uproar ;)
sobek Posted October 28, 2009 Posted October 28, 2009 It would be very interesting (and quite a contrast to the Ka-50) to have a plane outfitted with a lot of cutting edge technology, and MWS are quite new (AFAIK). Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
muamshai Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 There was some lines about A2A mode in Ka-50 manual. Probably, it is in the manual because it is there in real life counterpart, just not implemented :D This space is available for your advertisement
EtherealN Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 But A2A mode is implemented and operational, just like in the simulator. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Daniel "EtherealN" Agorander | Даниэль "эфирныйн" Агорандер Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz, ASUS Sabertooth P67, 8GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600MHz, ASUS GTX 560Ti DirectCU II 1GB, Samsung 830series 512GB SSD, Corsair AX850w, two BENQ screens and TM HOTAS Warthog DCS: A-10C Warthog FAQ | DCS: P-51D FAQ | Remember to read the Forum Rules | | | Life of a Game Tester
Guest craz1e83 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Maybe I missed it but there are a lot of helicopters to include the apache that can use air to air missiles. Just becuase they do not use them in current environment doesn't mean that they can't put them on... heck the apache's in afgan right now don't even use the advanced radar piece on the top of the rotors (it's not installed) due to it's weight and because there is no need for it ... Again helicopters can use air to air missiles ... epic thread btw... Oh I just read like the first 2 pages and saw all these people posting about how apache's and whatnot can't use air to air missiles so that is why I am posting if someone in the replies afterwards already squared you guys away on this than disregard this post :-)
GGTharos Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Maybe I missed it but there are a lot of helicopters to include the apache that can use air to air missiles. Yes, you missed it ... Just becuase they do not use them in current environment doesn't mean that they can't put them on... heck the apache's in afgan right now don't even use the advanced radar piece on the top of the rotors (it's not installed) due to it's weight and because there is no need for it ... Ka-50's are not wired (As far as anyone knows) to use any type of AAM. Apache's don't use AAM's either, though they were tested with 9's and ATAS. AFAIK, they might not even be wired to carry them, but AlphaOneSix is better educated to answer that since he worked with the real deal. Again helicopters can use air to air missiles ... No one said they couldn't. The Ka-50 does not. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
joey45 Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 ..heck the apache's in afgan right now don't even use the advanced radar piece on the top of the rotors (it's not installed) due to it's weight and because there is no need for it ... The Americans don't but us Brits do. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
AlphaOneSix Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 all these people posting about how apache's and whatnot can't use air to air missiles U.S. Army Apaches can't. I can't vouch for other helicopters, though. Apache's don't use AAM's either, though they were tested with 9's and ATAS. AFAIK, they might not even be wired to carry them U.S. Army Apaches (both A and D models) are not wired for air-to-air missiles.
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